Articles

Monday, May 04, 2009

Obama's Plan to Destroy Israel

If there's one thing that the Carter Administration can be given credit for, it's creating the new wave of Islamist terrorism, both Sunni, operating out of Afghanistan, and Shiite, operating out of Iran. The Carter Administration cracked down on Israel and put its "faith" in Muslim terrorists, who then went on to wage war on America, even while Carter was in office.

28 years after Carter was removed from office, we're in reruns again with the Obama Administration, which is not only following the Carter line, but whose plans greatly exceed it. 28 years ago, Wahhabi Sunni and Shiite terrorists were generally an afterthought when compared to the standard USSR backed Marxist terrorist groups, such as the PLO.

Today, thanks in part to the Carter Administration, they control several countries and have designs on several more. From Pakistan to Afghanistan, from Gaza to Lebanon, from the Middle East to Southeast Asia, the threat is very real and bigger than ever particularly as the race by both Sunni and Shiite groups to build and deploy nuclear weapons continues.

Like Carter before him, Obama has chosen to cut backdoor deals with the Mullahs in Iran, offering them power over Iraq and Afghanistan, in exchange for quieting things down enough to let him hang up a Mission Accomplished banner and pull the troops out. "Peace with honor", preferably before the next election. The rape law for Shiites in Afghanistan, the push for a US funded Hamas/Fatah Unity government in the territories and the rising expansion of the Taliban are all fruits of this arrangement.

If Iran is to be our new best friend under this arrangement, Israel is to be our new best enemy.

Obama stacked the deck by deploying Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State in a position that gave her an important title, but absolutely no power to go with it, while stacking the National Security Council and even the Pentagon with oil appointees in the pockets of the Saudis or his own left wing radical friends.

Israel electing a conservative government really put the ball into play, freeing up even more resources for attacking Israel. The strategy runs something like this.

The Obama Administration has broken down the Israel problem into two subsections, Israel itself, and American Jews.

Obama's people have studied the problem and understand where Carter went wrong. Obama does not want to have the same image problems as Carter in the Jewish community. Should that happen, the Beloved Leader and his lapdog press are fully prepared to unleash a Chavez style hate-on targeting American Jews. But that would be inconvenient and messy. Even with the changing face of America, there are significant differences between the average American and European or Venezuelan, and what kind of ugliness they are willing to tolerate. So Obama's people have split their attention in handling the two factors as two different problems.

American Jews - Obama has been clever about putting his Jewish appointees front and center. Like many minorities, some American Jews suffer from self-esteem problems that are soothed when they see a seeming acceptance. Of course what they fail to realize is that exploitation is not acceptance. And that Obama's appointees are creatures of his backers, Nazi collaborators like Soros, who have nothing but contempt for Jews, individually or collectively.

While outwardly courting Jews, Obama's people have also been quietly shoving Jewish organizations and their leaders into a corner. Within the Jewish organizational world there has been a silent but deadly takeover of major Jewish groups by left wing radicals. Former alumni of the far left wing and anti-Israel groups like Breira or Coname in the 70's have been elevated to key positions in such organizations as the UJA Federation. Behind the scenes any Jewish leaders who expressed even doubts about Obama during the primaries were intimidated and silenced.

Much as with conservatives, a list has been drawn up of those figures who can be won over, and those who cannot. The ones who can be won over are described as "moderates", the ones who cannot be won over are described as "extremists".

Meanwhile a bevvy of left wing Jewish In Name Only groups have been organized to play their part. Key among them is the Soros funded J Street, a group created as an anti-Israel lobby meant to eventually replace AIPAC. Meanwhile AIPAC itself has been kept on the ropes with such things as the well timed Harman leak. The message once again is fairly clear, cooperate and keep quiet, or we'll destroy you.

The multi-layered approach to American Jews can then be summed up as follows;

1.) Co-opt existing Jewish organizations and swing them to the left using old school 70's leftists.

2.) Create new "progressive" organizations to appeal to a younger generation of ethnically Jewish youth detached from any actual identity. Have these organizations generate attacks on the Israeli government and pro-Israel Jews, while creating phony polls indicating that most American Jews are behind them and Obama.

3.) Silence and intimidate remaining Jewish organizations and leaders behind the scenes.

The overall idea is to keep a happy face pasted on American Jewry while the knives are out in the dark.

Israel - The basic understanding in the Obama Administration is that Israel Must Go. In the worldview of the more moderate Obama appointees, Israel is a destabilizing factor in the Middle East. To the more left wing Obama advisors, Israel is a Western imperialist colonialist state that must be destroyed in the name of revolutionary justice. To the Islamist mindset, Israel is a Kufir state that has no right to exist in the Dar Al Islam.

While intractably hostile to Israel, the Obama Administration wants to avoid the kind of public confrontations that marked the Carter and Bush Sr administrations. Instead they would much rather model the way that the Clinton Administration waged a quiet war against Israel, removing one government, and forcing extensive concessions to terrorists, all the while keeping a happy face pasted on the whole affair.

On the one hand that means avoiding harsh public attacks on Israel, but keeping the pressure up for Israel to make extensive far reaching one sided concessions, to accept Saudi and Arab League "peace plans", to legitimize Hamas as the new government of the Palestinian Authority, and to insure that Israel does not reply to any rocket or terrorist attacks.

There are two forms of quiet leverage that the United States has on Israel, the first is financial and the second is military.

On the financial side, the goal will be to bring down the Netanyahu government coalition by destabilizing Israel economically. This is the surest and most direct path to bringing down Israel's conservative government and replacing it with a left of center coalition. The Obama Administration has a wide variety of tactics at its disposal for doing so, from the overt, such as targeting Israeli exports and imports, to the covert, that would involve targeting the Shekel. Additionally fundraising in the US could be investigated and groups such as the Jewish National Fund, prevented from raising money in the US. All of these have been in play before at one time or another.

On the military side, Obama's people will make their non-existent efforts to stop Iran's nukes conditional on more concessions to terrorists. Since Israel will never be able to make enough concessions and since Obama is working with Iran, rather than working to stop Iran's nukes, this is a hollow charade.

Furthermore while Israel has already been locked out of the military technology pipeline for anything cutting edge, it still remains dependent on US military equipment for parts and supplies. The decades of US foreign aid have also served to create dependency. Unlike many other countries, including even Sweden, Israel does not have its own jet fighter. Israel's Air Force is heavily dependent on US weapons, parts and equipment. Cutting Israel off, would leave the Israeli military dangerously vulnerable in the case of a war. This is an effective chokehold that has been used before to prevent Israel from attacking Saddam Hussein during the Gulf War, as well as preventing Israel from carrying out a preemptive strike against its enemies before the Yom Kippur War.

The overall Obama policy will be to push Israel to the brink, using financial and military blackmail against the Netanyahu government, while maintaining control over American Jews to prevent any protests or backtalk.

The more Israel will offer, the more the Obama Administration will tighten the screws. No offer will be good enough, and Israel will be blamed for every breakdown in talks and every bit of violence that takes place. The media will portray Israel and particularly Netanyahu as extremist and intransigent. Hamas will be slowly whitewashed in the media, the same way that Arafat's goons were, (assuming that they prove more willing to cooperate in creating a positive media image of themselves than Ahmadinejad is.)

The plan is to destroy Israel, and to do it by pushing Israel to the edge of the cliff and then over the cliff. Israel's enemies will be getting top of the line US military equipment. Israel will not. Israel will be squeezed economically until the Netanyahu government collapses, leaving a weak left wing leader like Livni in charge of Israel, and in charge of acceding to the new Pharaoh's demands.

Meanwhile so-called American Jewish groups will support Obama all the way, some because they were created precisely for that purpose, e.g. J-Street, and others because they have been hijacked, cowed or subverted. 

That is the game plan and some of it's coming. The rest is already here.

69 comments:

Anonymous said...

Is time running out for our side?

When I speak of "our" side I speak of the western style freedom and beliefs. Everyone should view the youTUBE clip called "Moslem Demographics."

Basically it documents the decline of the western people. Although it skips eastern europe and china, etc.; I suspect the same is true for those countries too.

The statistics support the spread of Islam as the direct result of their large families.

The west and east has a generational turn over that doesn't even maintain their current numbers. Only, seriously devoted/religious people have large families.

This driving force will spread Islam around the world.

Sultan Knish said...

Yes time is most definitely running out

Lemon said...

Obama has his own agenda and it has nothing good instore for either America or Israel.
It was a dark day when people liked what they saw but didn't listen to what he was really saying.

Anonymous said...

Supporting Hamas and forcing Israel to give more and more lands to Islamist Palestinians, resulting in stablishment of a new Arab-Islamist (Palestinian)state is also another way for attacking and destroying Israel while Americans will sit back and pretend to have nothing to do with the war that the newly founded Hamas-Islamist controled Palestinian state will wage against Israel together with many other Islamist and Arab countries.

Anonymous said...

You always write insightful articles.
God will destroy any nation that tries to destroy Israel. I kown many people dismiss that sentiment as religious dogma.
The spirit of Haman has been unleashed again, and just when it seems like there is no hope, God will cause an 'Esther' generation to raise up for such a time as this.
I pray that the darkness be removed from around the president, and that blinders be removed from his eyes. I pray for mercy for American, and the protection of Israel.
God Himself will destroy the armies that will surround Israel and mount an offensive againt her.

Haim said...

In Israel too the Jewish demographics are positive, familys have more children now than before. Jewish life flourishes.

To the first commentator, I saw the video, its a bit misleading, it doesn't say anything about the high number of Western converts. Islam is spreading, but not just by womb, it's a proselytising religion, and lots are drawn to it.

I think Jews should proselytise and increase their numbers too.

One sure way to reverse the demographic threat would be to bring in converts.

Jew With A View said...

Very interesting. I really wish you were wrong - but I suspect you are right...

I gather that, was it the ADL? - have condemned Geert Wilders for having the guts to openly condemn Islam? If I've got the organisation wrong please do correct me.

Also, the Obama administration is pushing for changes to laws that would allow it to finance a unity government that would include Hamas officials
http://ajewwithaview.wordpress.com/2009/05/02/obama-can-we-help-fund-hamas-yes-we-can/

Apparently Denmark has now turned dhimmi and banned Geert Wilders...

Sultan Knish said...

Yes it was the ADL

Daniel said...

#3 reminds me of a tactic of the NYT. After any article in the NYT about Israel, 3 letters to the editor appear. One is a pro-Israel letter by someone with a Jewish sounding name. The next is an anti-Israel letter by someone with a moslem name. The third is another anti-Israel by some one with a Jewish sounding name. The third always begins with " even though I am a committed pro-Israel Jew, the latest actions of Israel enrage me... Almost always the third person is an intermarried self hating non-Jewish Jew.

Anonymous said...

If you have but just ONE article to read, you should read this one:

THE PRESIDENT WHO HATES HIS COUNTRY
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/10784

(French Canadian)

Sultan Knish said...

Yes indeed Daniel, you see that one used quite often, to make anti-israel jews look like the voice of moderation

Arius said...

The Jewish people suffered genocide at the hands of the Muslim allied German Nazis in WW2. The Muslim heirs of the Nazi Jihad have been rehabilitated by the West and are again attacking the Jewish people.

The Serbian and Roma people suffered war and genocide at the hands of the Muslims and their German Nazi allies in WW2. The Muslim heirs of the Nazi Jihad have been rehabilitated by the West and are again attacking the Serbian and Roma people.

The Armenian people suffered genocide at the hands of the German allied Turks in WW1. Since WW2 the Turks have been rehabilitated by the West and since the 1990’s Western interests are supporting Muslim attacks on the Armenian people.

Western centric Armenians and Jews should wake up to the fact that in a Muslim conflict with any other group the West will tend toward support of Muslims. The last hundred years of history tell us this. It is delusional to think that in the future it will be any different. Western centric Armenians and Jews are a great danger to the very survival of Armenia and Israel in their support of implicitly pro-Muslim Western policy. Our people in the West need to wake up!

Lemon said...

"One sure way to reverse the demographic threat would be to bring in converts."

The problem there is that converts have no part in Israel.There is no land for them at all.
Filling Israel with converts will water down the right to the land.

beniyyar said...

So Israel is now facing a new and unexpected opponent, the Obamastates of America, and Israel will have to confront this new enemy with the wisdom, cleverness, and strength so characteristic of us Jews and that we have manged to utilize in our favor for decades.
We can no longer count on the American Jewish Community to come to our assistance, they are too assimilated, too caught up in the Obmamaniac hopeandchange opiate, and simply too weak Jewishly to see their connection with Israel, that our fate will be their fate.
But we Israeli Jews can successfully frustrate any plan that Obama and his court Jew, Rahm Emmanuel, can cook up because we are the good guys in this situation, vis a vis the Arabs of course, and vis a vis the Obama Administration.
We Jews have faced stronger, smarter, and more dangerous enemies throughout our history and with cleverness, wisdom, strength, and the help of the Almighty we have overcome them every time.
You present a very grim picture, but I want to suggest that when Obama messes with the Jewish People of Israel, he might be a bright guy but in this case he has no idea what sort of trouble he is going to cause himself. We will make Obama wish, just like we made Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton, and Bush Jr., he had never even thought of pressuring Israel.
As King David wrote, I place my trust in the Lord, Creator of Heaven and Earth!

ghostwriter said...

I don't understand what Lemon is saying about converts. Why do they water down the land issue?

It's time for Jews to make aliyah, to move home. I'm moving next month G-d willing. We need to show whether we support our own people or want to assimilate into the goyim and lose our identity. If we're not in Israel, how can we support Netanyahu? How can we merit redemption?

The issue with the fighter planes is one I hadn't considered. You don't provide much hope.....

Sultan Knish said...

beniyyar,

the thing to do is to frustrate the left and appeasement crowd in Israel and then Rahm and Obama become only a limited threat. If Israel's government stops kowtowing to Obama, he loses most of his power over Israel.

If not for such governments, Israel wouldn't be faced with the threats it is today.

Sultan Knish said...

Ghostwriter, hope comes from G-d, from knowing the unadorned truth and from meaningful action.

I certainly don't intend to imply that hope is lost. Hope is not lost, if people know the truth.

ghostwriter said...

Thanks Sultan. I believe that way, but you hadn't mentioned God.
I also think this is all happening so we do lose hope and all Jews finally recognize HaShem and turn to Him.

Sultan Knish said...

We always need to look to Hashem by default. Even when things are good.

David Ben-Ariel said...

Soetoro/Obama's plans would be frustrated if he didn't have Jewish collaborators to further his hateful agenda.

Will American Jews protest the president usurper's machinations by making the move to Israel at long last? THIS year in Jerusalem? I doubt it.

Jews have failed to learn the lessons of the Holocaust and remain in self-imposed exile as the hatred grows, a fire under their butts to get them going home, but most won't and will pay the high price for it.

Sultan Knish said...

The Muslim threat would not be an issue without Dhimmis.

Moving to Israel might be a way to help preserve Israel, but selling it as a straightforward solution when Israel itself is in grave danger, is a bit simplistic.

Keli Ata said...

Congratulations on this article:) Two fellow bloggers have reprinted it and it is now on the Most Popular page on J Blog, one with your actual byline-name, the other under Sultan Knish.

Great article!

Keli Ata said...

This is a long thread. One of the comments further up mentioned something about converts. Genuine converts aren't a problem.

Converts like Danny Ayalon's wife Anne, who converted to Judaism and is now a "born again believer" and pushing her new found faith at every turn are another matter.

Read Ellen Horowitz's post on Shiloh Musings. I don't have the direct link but www.shilohmusings.blogspot.com

beniyyar said...

We should take the Obama threats seriously, and our leadership will have to confront them wisely and with understanding because America is our ally, but nevertheless with firmness as to the justice of our cause and with determination as to the dangers of our Arab enemies and their American Jewish helpers.
In every generation they rise us to destroy us and yet even during the worst periods of our history, even with the actual Prime Ministers and Defence Ministers of Israel, weak and fearful Jews like Ehud Barak and the drunken sot Yitchak Rabin helping them, we the Jewish People have always managed to come out on top. The only reason we managed to overcome the existential dangers of the Olso Accords and the first and second Arab terror wars against us was miraculous, the hand of the Allmighty if you will, it certainly had nothing to do with those two snivelling clowns Rabin or Barak.
We also have a strong, intelligent, and informed Jewish population today in Israel, Jews who are far less indoctrinated with the poisons of Labor party socialism and secularism and Peace Now subservience to our enemies.
However intelligent or articulate Barack Obama is, he is still just another Gentile trying to make his reputation beating us up. He has his own little obedient Jewish poodle in the White House and probably expects to use Emmanuel's Jewish background as a fig leaf for his grandiose designs. But Obama isn't the first nor will he be the last foreign Gentile to try to impose his will on Israel, and he won't be the last to go madly running away from here with his tail between his legs, wondering to himself with real amazement just how he could be so deranged to try to force Israel and the Jews into anything.

Sultan Knish said...

Thank you K.A.

Yes the article seems to have become rather popular.

As for converts, I think the issue that's meant is that someone proposed that Judaism expand numerically by soliciting converts. And we don't that obviously.

People who are genuinely drawn come to Judaism, shilling for souls would degrade both Judaism and Israel. To the extent that conversion standards in EY have declined, problems result like the Neo Nazi gangs or Ayalon's wife.

Only people who are genuinely committed should join. Quality is more important than quantity.

LEL said...

It angers me that Israeli leaders have been so short-sighted over the years in not developing an Israeli fighter jet of its own. They assumed that America would always have friendly leadership in Washington and didn't anticipate the rise of someone like Obama. Frankly I never thought someone so radical could be elected this soon, but America's demographics are changing with so many third world people representing a powerful voting block for far left Democrats. Something like this should have been anticipated by conservatives here in America as well as Israel.

Sultan Knish said...

Beniyyar,

I have no idea where you're coming from, but the reality is extremely different from what you're posting.

We haven't overcome Oslo, Oslo is the reason Israel is constantly under siege. Thanks to Rabin Day, the population is more indoctrinated than ever, and there's hardly a Zionist party left worthy of the name. The Likud itself has become a joke.

While there's nothing wrong with confidence, the situation is radically different than what you describe.

Sultan Knish said...

Laura,

Israel did develop the Lavi, but the program was killed by D.C. It was a huge mistake to let that happen

www.freeman.org/m_online/aug00/arens.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI_Lavi

beniyyar said...

Well maybe I think so because now we have a Nationalist government government in power in Israel with Prime Minister Netanyahu from the Likud and Foreign Minister Lieberman from the Yisrael Beitanu Party. If the Oslo Leftist Socialist indoctrination you believe most Israelis follow is so ensconced, then maybe you can explain to me how these two Nationalists, capitalists, and security minded individuals managed to win such a big majority in the last election. The political map of Israel has shifted considerably to the Right and to the Nationalist Camp. Oslo has been dead for years, and the only reason it got a reprieve was because Ariel Sharon lied to his supporters and reimposed it on the Israeli public to save his own behind from going to jail. And by the way, Sharon got his just and I believe Divinely Ordained comeuppance didn't he? He is now lying in a hospital bed in a coma as a result of half his brain being surgically removed, from which he will never recover, to be poked, prodded, stuck with needles, stuffed with tubes in every orifice, with only the possiblity of death coming to his rescue. You don't have to take my word for it that Israel has shifted to the Right, just look at the present government!

Anonymous said...

What are CIA, FBI and SCOTUS waiting for before they kick this Usurper in Chief out and throw him in jail or deport him to Kenya? They all know he is an imposter a usurper. Are they afraid of him? Did he threatenned them with nuclear from Iran and Pakistan? WTF is going on in your country?

What's the joke here? Are they going to let this little fraud, this incompetent brain dead junkie, this Kenyan Muslim communist, this mentally dangerous evil egomaniac man rule the world? Can't they stop this bum? WTF are they waiting for?

People, you are on your own, your fate is in your hands now, none of your officials seems to care about "You The People". If Israel falls, you're next|

(French Canadian)

Anonymous said...

Exclusive: Obama Administration Stacking the Deck with Islamists
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.2999/pub_detail.asp

(French Canadian)

Sultan Knish said...

Beniyyar,

Technically Kadima won the majority in the last election. Neither Likud nor Yisrael Beiteinu are particularly Zionist or Nationalist.

The Likud has been heavily watered down. When you see something like Rivlin silencing critics of Ahmed Tibi's appointment as Deputy Speaker of the Knesset, it's rather clear that the old Likud is gone. As clear as what happened when Sharon managed to easily ransack the Likud to staff Kadima.

As for Yisrael Beiteinu, Lieberman talks a lot, but his actions go another way entirely. Yisrael Beiteinu's core base consists of Russian immigrants, and for them secularism is a much more important platform. YB is less nationalist, than it is about talking tough.

The true nationalist Zionist parties hardly registered in this election.

And no coalition that includes Labor and Barak can seriously be described as Nationalist. Or for that matter Shas and UTJ.

And none of these parties are actually prepared to toss away Oslo, or reclaim Gaza or expel the terrorists from within Israel's borders... so no Israel has not overcome anything. In fact Israel is still making more concessions.

Sultan Knish said...

The CIA is left wing, the FBI is heavily politicized, as for the Supreme Court, you'd need a majority of justices prepared to risk what amounts to a civil war.

Anonymous said...

"... as for the Supreme Court, you'd need a majority of justices prepared to risk what amounts to a civil war." (Sultan Knish)

You should hear Pastor Dr. James Manning going after SCOTUS. He is begging Justice Souter to let you know what is going on behim doors in the SCOTUS.

Video: Pastor Manning and the Justice Souter Resignation
http://contributors.blogsome.com...er-resignation/

(French Canadian)

Anonymous said...

Sultan,

There is no way a civil war would happen if Obama is removed. His popularity is way down. There are more chances of a civil war if they do not remove him.

(French Canadian)

Lemon said...

Ghost writer:
only those born Jews, into the family of Isrel have an inheritance of land in Eretz Israel.
Converts do not as they have no tribal affiliation.
If you over run Israel with converts they have no right to the land at all and Israel will not be able to keep the land.

beniyyar said...

For you guys in America no Israeli government will ever be Nationalistic or Right wing, and yet when you discount the only Nationalist or Right wing parties, you simply open the door to the real dangerous ones, like Meretz and Labor and especially Kadima.
And by the way if Kadima really won the election then maybe you can explain how it is that it is now sitting helplessly in the opposition? Oh that's right, for the American Jewish Right, even when the Jewish Right wins in Israel, it is never enough the Likud really is not different from Kadima and if they can sit with the Labor Party then they are the same as Kadima or even Meretz.
Well, I'll try to break this to you as gently as I can so as not to upset your thinking too much, but the Israeli Nationalist Right wing won the last election and is setting Israeli national and international policy in radically different ways from the previous government making for a safer Israel and a more Jewish homeland.
Kadima and Meretz and the Arab parties are all crying their eyes out in the opposition and complaining about how hugely Nationlist and Right wing the Likud led government is and how they would be more than happy to appease the Obama Administration and do whatever Barack Obama suggests. So for you, the new Israeli government isn't Right wing enough, and the opposition here and much of the international community thinks Bibi and Lieberman are warmongering maniacs who will never settle with the Arabs. I frankly don't think that you have the slightest idea what you are talking about regarding Israeli politics, and I find your criticisms of our new government misinformed, misguided, and juvenile. But of course, you live in America, and your awareness and knowledge of local Israeli events is just about non existent no matter how much you may involve yourself in affairs here in Israel.

Sultan Knish said...

Kadima won more votes than Likud did. It simply couldn't assemble a workable coalition. But more voters came out for Kadima than for Likud. Despite everything Olmert did.

Which should tell you how messed up a great deal of the voting base is.

The Likud at this point is hardly nationalist or right wing. And this is a coalition that includes Labor. That includes Shas, which voted for Oslo, and will vote for anything if enough shekels come their way. Ditto for UTJ.

Naturally the left wing parties are complaining about how right wing the coalition is. Demonizing their opposition as radical right wing extremists is what they always do.

But feel free to tell me what substantive changes on the ground are actually being made by the coalition that will allow Israel to leave behind the legacy of Oslo and stop the constant concessions to terrorism.

Israel has still been carved up, and the pressure is on to carve it up still more. I would hope that Netanyahu can resist the pressure, but your glowing overconfidence is not actually based on anything.

Ben-Yehudah said...

B"H

Important post.

Of course, with or without Obama, the Israeli Guh'mint is doing a pretty good job of destroying Israel all by itself.

concerned said...

I knew Lemon's explanation was where he is coming from, but Lemon, you are misinformed. 1. Most if not all converts are Jewish souls returning, either as anusim or in more esoteric ways.
2. Most Jews today (with the exception of cohanim and some Levites)who are "born" Jewish as you say, don't have a clue what their tribal affiliation is, and
3. none of this is even important because the Torah states that the convert is the same "as one born among you" ... and he does have the same rights to the Land as one who "knows" his tribe.
4. No one is at present living in Israel according to his tribal allotments. If necessary, I am quite confident in G-d's ability to allocate...
5. Your arrogance is stunning

beniyyar said...

The Likud is about the closest you are going to get if you want to form a government that is both Nationalist and Right Wing. Keep in mind that the Likud is Right Center and that is why it is able to form a coalition. If for example, it ran on a platform like the one that Katzele promoted, we would have had Kadima back charge.
And by the way, no government is ever going to be formed that is radically Left wing or radically Nationalist because of the reality of coalition politics in Israel. That is to say, whatever message or platform the ruling party may have campaigned on, it always has to dilute or weaken it's message to accomodate coalition partners, as well as to divide up the ministries in such a way as to pay off the coalition partners his acquires.
Let me give you a little but important history lesson about Israeli coalition politics and how the Israeli radical Right wing is really responsible for the Oslo Debacle Accords, and not just that drunken clown Rabin and his well known underminer of Israel Shimon Peres.
The 1992 elections were between Yitzchak Shamir and Yitzchak Rabin in the sense that we voted at that time for the Prime Minister separately for the governing party.
Well a fellow named Rabbi Moshe Levinger also took it upon himself to run for Knesset, and even though the more thoughtful of us begged him not to do it, he did run and while his radical Right wing Land of Israel failed to meet the voting threshold for entering the Knesset, it did manage to take enough votes to prevent Shamir and the Likud from winning enough seats to block Rabin and Labor thus leading to the Oslo Accords later on. The same scenario also played out a decade later in sort of a reverse when the super Dovish Left Wing Secular Labor candidate Amram Mitzneh ran against Ariel Sharon and was beaten to pulp. Unfortunately, Ariel Sharon fooled all of us and expelled Israeli Jews from the Gaza Strip and the Northern Shomron.
Look no one here says it will be easy to tell Obama and the rest of the international community "no" to their well intentioned by absolutely crap ideas of making peace between Israel and the Palestinians and make them like it.
But I will tell you how we can do it, successfully and without offending either our chief ally the Americans, and without alienating the Europeans either.

Lemon said...

Concerned, it doesn't matter if Jews today might not know their tribal affiliation. Most are Yehuda, many are Binyamin and Levi. They all have rights to ownership of land permanently in Israel, converts do not.
Non-Jews cannot permanently own land and it returns to its real owners during a "julibee" .
This is because the land and the covenants are with Israel.
The land and the people are set apart from the rest of the world.
If this offends you I am sorry but it is the truth.
Is it anti-convert? No, it's not.
Non Jews and converts can live in Israel but they are not owners of the land as per Torah.
To "bring in more converts" to populate the land is not the solution since the land would not belong to them.
Israel is to please G-d not people.

Tanakh is not a liberal minded book of political correctness aimed at making the world happy by watering down law.
Your reaction to what I said is knee jerk.

Ben-Yehudah said...

Lemon,

You're right, and furthermore, this is why the Eruv Rav wept in Egypt, as they had no full connection with the land.

Thus one of the signs of the Eruv Rav today is when "Jews" show no connection with the land.

I'm sure I don't even have to name names,...

concerned said...

Lemon, I find it very revealing that your response to my comment is here, but my comment is not. hmmm

You are just wrong. A convert not a non-Jew, he/she IS a Jew and is not someone whose property returns in the Jubilee year.

Your misunderstanding of Torah AND of halacha on this issue is dangerous and appalling. However this is not the forum for this discussion as the article is not about this subject.

Since you interjected it and several people commented on it, I felt some responsibility to truth to respond.

Have a good day.

Sultan Knish said...

I'm well aware of the realities of coalition politics and the impact of splinter parties.

And yes it will not be easy to deal with the current situation. That was my point all along.

Too many of us celebrated when Netanyahu beat Peres, thinking that the end of Oslo was here. The end of Oslo was not here. Oslo continued and today with Netanyahu back in office, the situation is now worse than ever.

Ben-Yehudah said...

SK,

Yes, we all remembered the "Israelis lost, Jews one" speech. Then, of course, Peres got the last life, and has it again now. {Is is just me, or has anyone else noticed that his "mostly ceremonial" position as president, is not so ceremonial anymore?}

Remember the bumper sticker "You voted for Sharon, and you got Peres?"

If you don't mind this one post of a link, you can see my update to this bumper sticker.

"You voted for Netanyahu, and you got Peres"

Sultan Knish said...

As in this entire Ger discussion is a tangent and has now turned hostile, and I'd like to call a halt to it.

AnechoicRoom said...

That Obama has a plan to destroy Israel? Is predicated on the assumption that he is smart (enough). To even have a plan. After reading through (but not yet comments), one could easily agree Obie doan a like a d'Joo's. And will in fact infect Middle East politic, with his deranged libwuhl syphilitic pus. He now nothing more than a very unfunny joke. With yes, extremely deadly implications (sadly so).

His reprobation of Israel .... merely (his) Chi-town street chest pounding, to vainly hide his ignorance, moral bankruptcy, inadequacy. And his abject failure [though that horse has already left (and is now circling) the barn].

We wait, we watch. Not with amusement, nor detachment. But yes, with concern and alarm. Though we do have zero doubt. In the unfolding of future events, that Israel will prevail. The King and his new clothes? Ya wouldn't know/recognize them from MSM .... but from the smell.

Signed, pinching my nose until Tuesday, November 6, 2012.

endtimes said...

I agree very much with you outline Sultan Knish.

I am very angry about the situation with American Jews (being one myself). I live in the NY area, and I can tell you that they love Obama FAR more than they care about Israel. I was called a "fascist" by a Jewish doctor who grew up in an Orthodox home because I started listing Obama's anti-Israel connections. My brother was called a racist at a bar-Mitzvah on the Upper West side when he started explaining why Obama's economic policies would fail after listening to hours and hours of Republican bashing and Obama loving.

Actually, out of all the people I come across, the most militant pro-Obama supporters are all Jews. The situation to me seems dire and hopeless. I don't know what to think anymore.

Anonymous said...

Sultan Knish, this was a fantastic column, and I thank you. A couple of questions, though. Do you have citations regarding "Like Carter before him, Obama has chosen to cut backdoor deals with the Mullahs in Iran, offering them power over Iraq and Afghanistan, in exchange for quieting things down"? Or is this just supposition or even euphemism? I'm particularly interested in citations about Carter doing that. Many thanks in advance.

Sultan Knish said...

You may wish to read some of these articles

http://www.usnews.com/articles/opinion/mzuckerman/2008/04/18/the-damage-of-jimmy-carter.html

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2007/08/zbignew-brezezinksi-barack-obama-and.html

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1181813077590&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/Printer

http://www.gulfnews.com/Opinion/Columns/region/10255175.html

Live Free or Die said...

Know this, my friends. There are many supporters of Israel in the USA. Unfortunately, I would say most of us are convervative Christians (Protestants and Catholic), and we are ourselves out of political power at present. It always amazes me how the American Jewish contingent can support the demented libs over here and refuse to acknowledge how those libs continually sell out Israel as well as the principles America was founded upon. We are still capable of raising a political ruckus, however, and we stand with Israel against the Islamo-facists. I hope Benjamin Netanyahu has enough fortitude to tell Obama where he can stick his two state solution plan, until Hamas, Fatah, and the Palistinian state demonstrate some serious good faith recipriocity for the territory Israel has already conceeded. It's going to be a long four years, and I pray Israel and the United States constitution both survive Obama.

Anonymous said...

Submitted to snopes for fact verification.

jomojava said...

Live Free or Die, I agree there are many supporters of Israel in the USA. I am active in the group Christians United For Israel (CUFI).

There will probably be 5,000-6,000 at the CUFI D.C. Summit in July. If one has an interest in actively supporting Israel, this is a great way to do so. The last day of the Summit will be spent lobbying Congress.

Live Free or Die said...

Anonymous,
I'm curious, who would get your nomination as a more steadfast, stronger ally than the USA Christian conservatives, aka Reaganites? The French? The British? The Canadains? The Australians? The Chinese?
We are Israel's natural allies because of our shared belief in the sanctity of innocent human life, and that man has God given rights, such as life, liberty, and the right to defend oneself, family, and nation. Surely you would agree with that Reaganites and Israil share these values... as opposed to the Amerian Socialists in the democratic party, those that can't seem to wait to kneel before Islam, that tells us Islam is a religion of peace, that bows before the King of Saudia Arabia, that now has reduced us to an "overseas contingent" operation? We are your allies, because we believe you are God's chosen people, because our Savior was one of you, and because we know you love God as we do. And anyone who loves God loves justice. We will stand by Israel no matter the size of the mob around her.

Julie said...

This is a top-notch piece, clear, analytical, and I'm afraid deadly accurate.

One thing--Obama's not the puppet-master but the puppet. It's Emanuel and his bunch, and Soros and HIS bunch, who are pulling the strings. IMO, of course.

Anyone who genuinely values human lives--which means anyone who genuinely values freedom--must stand up strongly for Israel and against anti-Semitism and the scapegoating of Jews, regardless of his or her religious orientation.

Anonymous said...

Subject: Democracies must unite!
It is taking far too long for the Nations of the World to awaken to the fact that what they are witnessing is not a War of the Races but, rather, a conflict between two distinct political cultures Despotic Fundamentalism and Democracy.
It should be obvious, by now, that it is not hatred of Christians or Jews that fuels the flames of terrorism. Despotic leaders decree hatred as a political weapon to offset the thing they fear most - encroaching Democracy. It is they, who abet and finance the spreading of hatred in the Madrasses & Mosques and the arming of indoctrinated terrorists as a tool to protect their vested interests. They will willingly spend their last dollar and sacrifice the last Palestinian/Iraqi/Afghani “Freedom Fighter” to ensure the perpetuation of their benighted regimes.
Regretfully, their downtrodden, exploited, fearful citizens, who suffer most from their tyranny, are incapable of sparking a revolt to overthrow their oppressive leaders.
The Iraqi and Afghani experience indicates that disfranchised people will require time to appreciate and exploit the opportunity granted them on a silver platter.
The Iraqis will eventually laud their emancipation and may, in the not too distant future, erect shrines to commemorate the sacrifices of the dedicated Allied Forces who fought to rid them of their cumbersome shackles.
This is an era of Fundamentalist Despotism versus Democracy.
The 21st Century mission of the Democracies of the World may be to unite, as a separate entity, and aid the citizens of these benighted regimes achieve a dignified and civilized existence.
Such action would serve well to protect the future of all progressive societies.

beniyyar said...

Everything that the Obama administration is trying has been tried before by others and has failed. Pressure on Israel for more concessions and gestures to the Palestinians will always fail to produce a peace settlement because the Arabs will never accept a sovereign Jewish State here, ever. As an Israeli Jew who lives in a settlement in the Disputed Territories, I would really be worried if President Obama were to publicly demand that the Palestinians publicly and in Arabic unconditionally renounce any form of verbal or physical violence or incitement against Israel and negotiate in good faith for a compromise settlement which would allow for both Israelis and Palestinians to live in peace, prosperity, and security.
Of course the Palestinians will never ever do or say anything like this, but for me, if President Obama were to demand these things, it would tell me and the rest of the world that he really understands the Arab Israeli dispute and that the Arabs are totally responsible for the lack of peace between us and them.
But President Obama will never express such sentiments because he is too inexperienced in world affairs, he lacks any serious understanding of the dynamics of the Middle East, and he is too immature to take a such a serious and effective stand on the issues facing Israel, the Middle East, Iran's nuclear program, or even Arab Islamic terrorism.
On the other hand, President Obama will continue the status quo which I am perfectly happy with because with every passing day Israel grows stronger and more secure, and the Arabs sink further and further into decadence and irrelevance.

Sultan Knish said...

How exactly has it failed?

Gaza is in the hands of Hamas. There are thousands of armed terrorists on Israeli soil. Successive Israeli governments have offered up Yerushalayim itself in negotiations.

It has failed to bring peace, but it has not failed to kill thousands of Israelis and endanger the survival of Israel.

"On the other hand, President Obama will continue the status quo which I am perfectly happy with because with every passing day Israel grows stronger and more secure, and the Arabs sink further and further into decadence and irrelevance."

Again I'm not sure what world you're living in, but in this one Iran is moving closer to nuclear weapons, Israel continues to surrender land to terrorists, Israeli soldiers remain hostages in the hands of terrorists and unrest has moved into Yerushalayim and the Negev. Even the formerly loyal Bedouins have been acting up.

beniyyar said...

Just where since Gaza has Israel "surrendered land to terrorists?" I live here and I haven't seen it, but perhaps in the fantasy world of yours every day means another dunam of land in Israel is in terrorist hands. One, that's right, exactly one Israeli soldier is in terrorist captivity in Gaza, and by the way, there is always unrest somewhere in Israel, just like any other country in the world, there is also car theft and murder as well, and so what? Does any sentient person really believe that Israel would be perfect if only certain religious or political policies were implemented? Israel's survival is hardly in question as practically any Israeli living here could and would be happy to tell you and as you would see yourself if you actually lived here for any length of time. I have lived here for almost thirty years and Israel has grown and prospered so much that I can hardly remember how tough things used to be. Indeed simply in terms of Judaism and Jewish thought, there is more and deeper activity than there ever was at any period in the Galut. The number and size of Yeshivot, Kollelim, and Beit Knessets, as well as the number of Rabbis, religious students, and even religious Jews is far greater in present day Israel than it was at any time in the Diaspora. Your fear mongering besides being at odds with the reality in Israel is a deep insult to those of us who have worked successfully to make the modern Israeli state the powerhouse and light unto the nations we are. Again, while Israel can use the moral and financial support of Diaspora Jewry we can and have gotten along just fine without it, and if the polls I read occasionally are any indication, any Jew in the Galut who wants to remain Jewish better get to Israel as soon as he can because in a few more years most of those Jews will have assimilated.

Sultan Knish said...

Ghajar ringing any bells?

Not to mention that the last government was ready to hand over a whole lot more than that. If Netanyahu begins negotiating, he'll be expected to start there.

Yes one IDF soldier that we know of, how many terrorists had to be freed to bring down that number, including Samir Kuntar.

Any other country does not have its capital city on the line and has no handed over sizable portions of its land to terrorists. Israel is.

There are Kollelim and Yeshivos in Galut too. No shortage of them. There were plenty of Rabbonim and Yeshivos in Poland. Far more in Eretz Yisrael long ago. And if those in EY today are not protected, they'll go the way of Poland as well.

beniyyar said...

I am beginning to think that maybe you live in some sort of fantasy world where if the facts don't suit you or your outlook, then you just make up others that will work for you.
Israel, according to you, is led by weak willed nebbishes, in charge of a confused and scared public, and if only I suppose that people like you were in charge, we would be okay.
Well, we ARE okay and doing just fine thank you very much. And while there is some Jewish learning going on in Galut, it is nothing compared to the learning and living of Judaism that is part and parcel of our daily life in Israel.
You know, I once had occasion to attend services at an Orthodox synagogue in Chicago, and they had built their succah INSIDE the building. I keep this in mind when someone from the Diaspora tells me how wonderful Jewish observane and learning is there!
Perhaps if you actually came to Israel and lived here for a few years we would be able to disabuse you of your notions of how real Israeli Jews think and feel.
No we are not all going to be Kach members nor are we all going to be Peace Now advocates, many of us want peace with the Arabs and get on with our lives without IDF reserve duty every year or our sons and daughters having to put their lives on the line every day protecting us from Arab killers. I would like to walk out of my house and not have to strap on a gun before I do so, and I would like to be able to deal with Arabs as counterparts and not as hostile and dangerous enemies.
You living 5,000 miles away pretty much immunizes you against some of the truly harsh realities that the Arab war against Israeli has imposed on us and has caused many Israeli to pray every day for peace and has even made some of us willing to make the most outlandish compromises so that we can have peace.
But get this straight, with all the problems we face, Israel is and remains probably the safest, kindest, most prosperous, and certainly the most Jewish place in history since the fall of the Second Temple. We have produced strong and able Jewish leaders, who although sometimes misguided as they are on the Left, still have the good of the Jewish Israeli public first and foremost in their policies.
Since I don't believe in the use of coarse, vulgar, or obscene language, I won't even mention how I feel about Barack Obama and his anti Israel and perhaps even anti Semitic government.

Sultan Knish said...

If you're going to accuse me making up facts or living in a fantasy world, you should actually disprove what I said.

Of course you can't. Instead this conversation became unproductive several replies back and is now a complete waste of time.

I know far more of the Israeli reality than you think, and your comment about the succah only reveals your own foolishness. If I really wanted to take shots at standards in EY, I would have no shortage of material, like Yonnie Metzger's little televised Nazi bris. Or which dati politician can steal more money. Or which bnei brak gang is trashing whose shul.

Yes I know it would be very nice to have peace, no more reserve duty or security guards or worrying if your son will come back. Unfortunately wishful thinking is no substitute for dealing with unpleasant realities. You don't have to be a kach member to realize that the peace process is a dead end.

The Dame Truth said...

Sultan, as always, you are frakking brilliant. Thanks for putting it out there, and in such an articulate way. Ooops, I said 'articulate.' Does that mean I'm a racist? anti-muslim? domestic terrorist? Sigh. So many words...so little time...

Michael Kogan said...

Daniel, i would call you a liar, but i never met you, so i don't know.. There is an equal chance you are simply a politicaly blind crazy person. In either case you produce high quality venom for the sad part of american jews that don't know any better. Whether you lie about Obama's plan to destroy Israel, or about Obama's plan to kill elderly through his healthcare reform, it doesn't matter. Your side always have been pushing humanity into the gutter, back to stone age, but did they succeed ? No, never... I understand that you are an ultra-uber-conservative, and you hardly can understand the depth of your insanity, but at least you could've stopped lying in each and every article of yours. But wait... this is just in.. Obama eats small kittens every night for supper. Make it a centerpiece of your next brilliant piece. No proof needed. Same as it was not needed anywhere in this article. Obama hates jews. Obama eats kittens. An if it turns out to be not true - your side will never question your writings, those who feed on venom never question its source. Goood luck writing lies for dolts.

Sultan Knish said...

My side has been pushing humanity into the gutter? I think you forget the majestic glory that was the Soviet Union, or North Korea or just about any left wing regime. Or do you admire Chavez's anti-semitism and thuggery?

Most Israelis polled believe that Obama is against Israel. Clearly they must be "backward and ignorant" too. Obama has repeatedly turned the screws on Israel, while expecting nothing of the Palestinian Authority. But clearly that fact has escaped to you.

But feel free to go on worshiping your deal leader. Just remember what Trotsky's father said to him, the Trotskys may make the revolutions, but the Bronsteins pay for them.

Political Scientist said...

Did you have a chance to read the recent Rasmussen poll?

Should US Defend Israel With Military Aid if Attacked?

Republican: Yes 73%, No 20%

Democrats : Yes 47%, No 36%

See also:
http://politicalstatistics.blogspot.com/

____

American Muslims overwhelmingly voted Democratic. No questions about it. They have enough reasons to vote so.

The question is why American Jews overwhelmingly voted Democratic: Barack Obama wins 77 percent of Jewish vote, exit polls show.

Sultan Knish said...

That 77 percent statistic is wrong

see How many Jews really voted for Obama

it's about time people stopped repeating it over and over again

Anonymous said...

Israel should tell the people of Gaza, "Change your style of government, or you better learn how to swim in the Med."

Post a Comment