Sunday, May 17, 2009

Muslim Demographic Doomsday

With the rapid growth of Muslim populations in Europe, Muslim demographics represents a topic that is on everyone's mind. From the rising radicalism of UK Muslims to the car burnings that shook Paris to the riots in Brussels and the growing acceptance that some form of Sharia law will be integrated into the legal systems of individual European nations-- not just the size, but the projected size of Muslim populations is behind attitudes toward Muslims.

To many on the left, Muslim populations represent the fall of colonialism and the rise of true multicultural societies. To many on the right they represent a threat and the mark of a skull and crossbones across the map of Western Europe. To many middle of the road politicians, who may identify one way or another, the Muslims populations are inevitable and must be accommodated. Such politicians may dislike the social and criminal problems produced by Muslim growth, but see no way out but to accept it and make the best of it. That is why seemingly confrontational politicians like Sarkozy in France or Lieberman in Israel may talk a good game, but while their rhetoric roars like a lion, their actual policies squeak like a mouse.

This form of Dhimmism is one one of the more disturbing side effects of Muslim population growth, as politicians thinking themselves farsighted, resign themselves to the inevitable. And this of course makes Muslim populations one of the best political weapons in the hands of Muslim leaders, who make it clear that they are the future and that nothing short of genocide can change that.

The reality however is far more complicated. For one thing Muslims are well aware that their strength lines in numbers, not in much of anything else, and that it is to their advantage to exaggerate those numbers as much as possible. When Arafat said that the womb of the Palestinian woman was his best weapon, he was projecting the same basic ultimatum that Muslims would deliver time and time again to the non-Muslim nations that played host to them, "We'll outnumber you soon enough, and unless you're prepared to kill us all, you had better be ready to make a deal with us."

But the perception of a weapon is as important as the reality of a weapon. Israel began a series of panicked policies, that included the Gaza Disengagement, as a response to perceived Muslim demographic superiority. That perception however was wrong. In fact Arab Muslim births were leveling off, and Jewish births were catching up.

Similarly European leaders have accepted being outnumbered by Muslims, having Islam dominate Europe and having Sharia become the law of the land based on a false premise. There are two reasons for the higher Muslim birthrate, the first is religious or ideological, the second however is economic. It is not so much that Muslims have a high birthrate, as that Europeans have come to have a low birthrate.

Socialism has created the bear trap that Europe now finds itself in, by levying heavy taxation to support a social services infrastructure that makes raising large families economically difficult, and using that same social services infrastructure to fund the large families of Muslim immigrants, imported to compensate for that same low birth rate and the accompanying shrinking tax base.

Socialism created the problem of Muslim demographics, both in Europe and Israel, where Arab Muslim families benefit from special payments made to large families and Israel's extensive health care system. The same situation is taking place in the United States, though focused more on immigrants from Latin America.

Yet even when underfunded by Europe's social services system, it is not clear how many generations Muslim birth rates could sustain themselves. High birth rates are a reasonable product of a rural system where children are assets. Child labor laws and high educational barriers in workplaces curtail those same benefits in urban areas. Sustaining a large Muslim birth rate in Europe therefore requires constantly importing a fresh supply of first generation immigrants, a process that Europe can now curtail.

In the Muslim world, high birth rates are set to cause social and economic crashes of their own. Since Muslim countries have few real exports besides oil, they have a limited ability to sustain large populations. Those Muslim countries which do have a strong domestic oil industry tend to produce the fewest "immigrants of expansion", as opposed to political and religious refugees. Those Muslim countries without any significant domestic oil industry are driving much of the immigration to Europe. Countries like Egypt, Morocco, Pakistan, Lebanon dump their surplus populations into Europe, America and Australia. They don't want them, and neither do we.

Immigration serves as a safety valve, dumping radicals and shiftless young men into European societies that they quickly come to despise. If that valve was suddenly turned off, half the Muslim countries would collapse or reform. Possibly a little of both. Immigration however turns their religious and social problems into our problems, and eventually our destruction. Meanwhile the perception of an unstoppable rising Muslim population tide panics politicians and causes them to throw up their hands in surrender, before they've even seriously addressed the problem.

Boosting European birth rates, reducing taxation, ending open door social services for foreigners and drastically curtailing immigration would reverse the Muslim demographic threat. We are not truly helpless, we are only being made to feel that way. There are solutions and answers that can end the helplessness and the shadow of the demographic threat.


Lemon said...

US is rapidly joining Europe since the Kennedy/McCain bill which cut out european immigration in favor of third worlders and put a stop to curtailing illegal immigration.

Gani said...

Good, but a few major flaws in that the threat is diminished to births only. It’s much bigger, Sultan.

It ain’t just births, the Muslims are active in lobbying, have more wealth, are better educated and are gaining rising political power, in business and finance. A growing but very influential minority. The facts above are only half sided, and don’t give the complete picture. Births alone don’t make for growing influence, you underestimate grossly, the growing political clout, wealth and influence, and native Europeans, certainly Americans are shifting allegiance to Islam in droves. Politicians court the Muslim vote like bitches in heat.

Even more alarming is that the same trend is prevalent in the USA. Muslims are an increasingly powerful group there, though they only number about 2 million in the US. They’re more active, noisy about their rights, growing wealthier, and more politically aware.

Heck, President Hussein is a shining example of what they can do even with a little power, imagine 15 years from now!

I’d say it’s very dangerous to presume that the threat is high birth rates and immigration. It isn’t. There are almost more numbers of converts than immigrants. The difference between Muslims and other groups in the US is that Muslims think themselves superior to all creation, and don't conform, but EXPECT US to conform. Let's not underestimate the threat, by pretending that capping births or immigration is the solution. It's not. Even if the Europeans start breeding more it won't stop the threat, if their children grow up and are pro Muslim which are lot of them are. They even blame the US for the European terror attacks by Muslims! And Hamas and Hezbollah are considered to be dashing hero's resisting an ugly racist Jewish state.

Muslim Women Power List
Our leading Muslims: Power list celebrates the top 100 players boosting the nation
The Muslim community contributes more than £31bn to the economy, and much else besides to our lives. Last night, the business leaders, writers, academics, doctors, campaigners and aid agency founders who do most for Britain were honoured at an awards evening with a difference. Jonathan Thompson reports
8 Apr 2009
Growing Interest in Islamic Finance

Banknotes from various countries
As the western capitalist model is on the defensive, there is a growing interest in interest-less Islamic finance, Shawn Woodley writes for Diplomatic Courier.
By Shaun Woodley for Diplomatic Courier

Jew With A View said...

And an allied problem is that, certainly here in the UK, because mainstream political parties won't speak out against the rising numbers of Muslim immigrants, it falls to the far Right to pick up the slack.

Here, the neo Nazi British National Party (BNP) is gaining a lot of ground because many perceive it as being the only party which will even address the dangers of an ever increasing Muslim population.

People who would never have dreamed of supporting the BNP are now doing so, because the BNP vows to crack down on any attempts to introduce Sharia law here in Britain.

Also: very good article about Obama addressing the Muslim world, here:

Sultan Knish said...

Gani, I was speaking specifically about demographics, as opposed to other threats, but a lot of Muslim power in Europe comes from the perception that they represent the demographic future

that has given Islam and Muslims a great deal of unwarranted influence

Gani said...

Sultan I beg to differ,

The demographic threat is really only voiced by extremists and the far right who try to use anything to further their anti immigration agenda.

Whilst it is true that there is a problem with some illiterate Muslims integrating, and they only have high births and nothing to offer, it's exaggerating highly to say that they represent the majority and that their influence is exaggerated by the media. They and their high births have no influence.

The majority (whom i see as the bigger threat) are as I said above (wealthier, politically astute even though small in number, better educated and assertive) and they certainly are influential.

I also think that the American's who keep harping about the European demographic threat don't really understand that there is a "laurence of arabia" syndrome prevalent here, and Europeans are pro-Islamic. There is a opposition to them, but it mainly comes from far right extremists who are condemned by all mainstream politicans and business groups, and even the general public. People like Geert Wilders are seen as BNP far right Nazi bigots, and no less than 3 heads of state have refused entry to this man.

Didn't the ADL recently condemn him too in the USA too?

I'd say that they don't want to upset the apple cart. Remmember most Muslim states have freindly relations with Europe, and Russia has a bigger Muslim majority than Europe. Billionaire Muslim Russian oligarchs galore. Sulieman Karimov donated over 100million dollars to a RUssian Muslim centre!

Keli Ata said...

You are right about perception, Sultan. Even here in the US I get uncomfortable when I read headlines along the lines of "how long until whites are a minority?"

Yes. It is truth and the studies are accurate but the idea that the US will go from the current melting pot in which people are united as Americans but still cherish and celebrate what was good and sweet about the "old country" to a Muslim dominated culture; a different melting pot in which Muslims from Arab, African, and Asian countries united under Islam fills me with dread.

Call me a racist but a report that came out just a few days ago from Ireland. Apparently employers are favoring job applicants with Irish sounding names and hiring those with Arab or African sounding names less often offered at least a glimmer of hope that somewhere in Europe people were sticking up for their unique and distinct culture.

Something tells me what's happening in Ireland is deeper than employment discrimination and racism. Maybe it's their way of telling Muslims not to come to Ireland--no jobs there.

Jew With A View said...


You are quite right that certainly in Europe, many view Geert Wilders as being on a par with the BNP and other far right groups. It's a travesty. Wilders has not - as far as I can gather - ever said anything racist. (if anyone has evidence to the contrary, I'd genuinely be interested to see it).

I am bemused that the ADL denounced Wilders because Jews the world over *should* be very alert to the loathing for Jews that is an intrinsic part of Islam.

By the way - has anyone here come across a site called 'Jewschool'?

It's billed as a 'progressive' Jewish site but they spend a fair amount of time bashing Israel.

Lemon said...

The demographic threat is exactly what the problem is.
Once a nation becomes overrun with groups outside their own culture and people the problems begin.
MOhammedans are a problem because their demographics are increasing in nations where they go.
It is one of their prime methods of taking over.

Once you can replace a native population with your own people you have it made.
Even a smaller, vocal and dangerous immigrant population can make huge changes in a nation by intimidation and fear when the indigenous population is weak and weary and willing to compromise to keep "peace".

Mazel said...

Kelia you said

" to a Muslim dominated culture; a different melting pot in which Muslims from Arab, African, and Asian countries united under Islam fills me with dread.

Whites were not the natives to the US, the land was stolen after genocide of a brown people.

Second. Native white Americans are dumping Xtianity for Islam. See the videos and links. Decline in Xtianity, and converting to Islam. I wonder why, when Evangelicals are the most ardent proselytizers. Maybe they're being paid.


Turning Muslim in Texas
George W Bush may be backed by Christian fundamentalists but in his home state of Texas, Islam is the latest big draw. The Bible belt is transferring its allegiance to the Qur’an because, for many erstwhile Christians, believe it or not, the church is too liberal.

There are 400,000 Muslims in Texas alone and Islam is the fastest growing religion in the USA. Since 9/11 there have been more converts to Islam than ever. Eric believes that people are trying to understand Muslims and want to learn about their religion. Yasmine says: ‘America should not be afraid. If it would be better Muslims were the majority

Turning Muslim in Texas Video

But what if the problem is in the "product" itself?
June 05, 2007
The persistent decline in mainline Protestant church attendance of recent
decades, especially among the educated, suggests that the church' s
evangelism efforts may have deeper problems than just poor sales work. The
religion about Jesus, proclaimed by the church for hundreds of years, has
some serious credibility problems.

Friday, June 01, 2007
Southern Baptists seek revival as evangelism sputters
By Adelle M. Banks
statistics from the nation's largest Protestant body paint a picture of
evangelism in decline. Baptisms in 2006 dropped 1.89 percent, to 364,826,
from 2005, according to a church study. Those figures contrast sharply with
the goal of 1 million baptisms that was set by the denomination's immediate
past president, Bobby Welch.
Experts inside and outside the church point to all kinds of reasons for the
seeming malaise, from apathy within to lack of interest without. Some
question whether older approaches to evangelism still fit modern-day needs.
Others wonder if the conservative leadership's views on doctrine and values
have chased people away.

Sultan Knish said...

The whole idea of "brown people" is a liberal construct that piles every supposed oppressed minority group into one box. Were the Spanish conquistadors white then?

In North America most of the genocide came from Indian tribes, or rather confederations of tribes, such as the Iroquois, who exploited the guns traded by French and English traders to conquer and destroy numerous other tribes.

Keli Ata said...

TY for the feedback and links Mazel. I know what you're saying about white Americans (European immigrants and pioneers).

But despite the past abuses against native American Indians--and many of them were horrendous-- there are no current government persecutions against them.

With the exception of NYS trying to tax cigarette and gas sales on their reservations (which virtually everyone I know considers dead wrong and illegal) there aren't any major persecutions of First Nation people today.

The struggles of the past are much more complicated, as Sultan pointed out.

As for Xtians converting to Islam I am baffled. Muslims murder 3000 Americans and xtians decide to convert to their cause and religion? I just don't get it unless deep down they have a desire to align themselves with Islam and all the evil it espouses.

But then I consider the pope and his comments about a Palestinian state and can't help but see a synthesis of opposites (xtian and Muslim)rising up against the Jewish people.

Brian Von Obenaur said...

Many of the abuses of White settlers were of horrific nature.
Americans did not kill off all the Indians.
This file twisting of history that is done lately is disgusting.

Christians are not converting to Islam on any meaningful level. What a crock that is.
That is propaganda for mohammed's worshippers who like you to think just that.
This mazel guy is probably an Arab himself

Mazel said...

Brian Von Obenaur

Please show me how what I said is Arab propoganda? and you can rewrite history if that suits you, but you cannot deny what is history. The facts are there for anyone to check, and i didn't say that Whites were not victims.

You can live in Denial if you want to, my guess is that you can't swallow the fact the Christianity is dying in the USA. My guess is that you're a Fundamental who can't swallow the "good news" is being dumped. Maybe you can explain why that is so. That was the point of the post. If you want to pretend that Islamic influence is not on the rise you are free to do so, don't look for an excuse to tar others though, with your own propoganda.

No need to take your frustrations out in a Jewish site.

This Brian Von Obenaur is probably descended from killers of Indians himself and suffers from guilt complex.

Sultan Knish said...

Mazel, if you want to see people descended from "killer of Indians", go talk to an Iroquois.

The facts are indeed there for anyone to check.

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