Wednesday, July 18, 2007

Islam and Christianity, Islam and Judaism - Can You Be Two Religions at Once?

When an Episcopalian priest in Seattle announced that she considered herself both a Muslim and a Christian and worshiped at a Mosque, all the while remaining with her congregation, conservative Christians expressed outrage and disgust at the Reverend Ann Holmes Redding, pointing out that the beliefs are incompatible and that you can't be a member of two religions.

Of course you can't.

"The idea that a person can become a Muslim while remaining an Episcopal priest in good standing trivializes both faiths", Ralph Webb, Director of the IRD's Anglican Action program said.

Yes it does. But here's the problem. Many Evangelical Christian and particularly Baptist Churches have been insisting that you can.

For decades they funded and promoted Christian Ministers who called themselves Rabbis and set up Churches which they called Synagogues and pushed a brand of Christianity called "Messianic Judaism".

Ralph Webb is right. Insisting that a person can be one religion and yet serve as a religious leader in another trivializes both. You can't be a member of two religions. Not Christianity and Islam or Christianity and Judaism. And you can't claim otherwise when it suits you. The same Christian Churches that promoted the belief that you can be Jewish and Christian have opened the door for this.

Defenders of such policies will claim that Christianity succeeded Judaism and it's fair game to claim to be both. Guess what. According to Muslims, they succeeded Christianity. You don't accept that? Well neither do we. And now you know how we feel.

At the end of May I wrote on a Jewish and Christian alliance and put forward this theoretical scenario.
How would Christians feel if Muslims set up a group of mock Christian churches and a mock Christianity called Prophetic Christianity targeting authentic Christians and attempted to convert Christians to Islam by telling them that only by accepting Mohammed as the final prophet, would they become Completed Christians.

These "Churches" would be overseen by Imams who would call themselves Ministers and would be specifically selected from Christian converts to Islam to preach a form of Islam thinly disguised as Christianity. These "Churches" would feature celebrations of Islamicised Christmas' and Easter's centering on Mohammed.

Christians should ask themselves how they would feel about such Mosques disguised as Churches and Imams disguised as Ministers. Yet Christian groups have invested billions of dollars over the years in doing precisely this very thing to Jews. How do you think we feel about it?

Now there actually is a priest whose own loyalty is to Islam and functions within a Church. Muslims already routinely use Jesus to try and blur the line with Christianity insisting that since they accept Jesus, you should accept Mohammed. How long before Muslims catch on and begin following the entire handbook that was used to create Messianic Judaism, only this time aimed at Christians? There already is a Jews for Allah. A Christians for the Prophet can't and won't be too far off.

Arguing that you can't be Christian and Muslim only has credibility when the people arguing it apply that across the board to all religions, not just when it suits them. But doing evil only brings more evil and deceit brings more deceit. The same false Rabbis and Synagogues that have been set up have not converted a generation of Jews but sucked hundreds of thousands of Christians into giving away their money to con artists like "Rabbi Ari Crockett" because after all once a con job gets started, there's no reason to think it will stop at Jews.

In a Forward article titled, Messianic Jews Find Fertile Ground in the Bible Belt, we have the following quote.
Whatever the politics over the future direction of messianic Judaism may be, movement leaders say that the American South is particularly fertile ground for expansion.
“In the Bible belt, you have many Christians who love Israel, so we attract more gentiles [to our services], plus there are a lot more intermarried couples down here than there would be in the Northeast,” said Derek Leman, religious leader of Atlanta’s Tikvat David Messianic Synagogue.

There's half a truth in there. The Messianic movement isn't expanding in the South because that's where the Jews are. They are expanding there because it's where the Christians are and those Christians are pulled out of mainstream Churches into cult centers that were originally meant for Jews but when those Jews failed to show up, are increasingly targeted at non-Jews. "Messianic Judaism" is better than 80 percent Non-Jewish. Guess where those numbers are coming from?

By expanding into the South, the Messianic movement is headed deeper into the heartland of American Christianity because it learned long ago that it could never capture more than a handful of Jewish followers. There are after all only a few million Jews in America and hundreds of millions of Christians. In the end, you are a better target for them than we are.

Meanwhile the same Churches continue to fund them and maintain the facade. And when it boomerangs and Muslims pick up the same trick, what happens then?


Nightghost said...

Love the article. Well said! I agree. I am a former xtian and believe that we have to get away from our "man made" idols and get back to HaShem and his Torah. The Jewish people are the ones who we should turn to learn the right way.

Thanks Sultan.

Nightghost said...

I agree. Well stated.

Lemon said...

Missionary activity is plain wrong.
It is a disservice to everyone involved.
The missionaries who give service to the poor in the name of religion are practicing a form of bribery that is particularly sickening.

Lemon said...

I have left a suggestion on top comment box for you. It is always a mess.

Lemon said...

By the way there is a group from Jackson NJ who target Jews in Lakewood with charity events and leaflets downtown.
It's real chutzpah. Although the rabbi is Jewish, the members of that group are not.

Keli Ata said...

Christians and Muslims alike are like spiritual hunters. Not only are they Jews for J and Jews for All, whithin all of that deception we also have Christians and Muslims trying to put their meat hooks into even Noachides. Do an online search and you'll see "chrisian noachides" or "Muslim noachides."

My understanding is that any gentile is born a noachide, and many are turning away from the faiths they were raised in--either christianity or islam--and returning to Hashem.

For all the criticism some have for Chabad, they really have increased awareness of the Noachide Laws and Hashem to many christians. Naturally, christians and muslims try every trick in the book to reel them the same as they do Jews in to their false religions.

I roll my eyes whenever a messianic jew, hebrew catholic or now apparently jews for allah describe themselves as 'completed jews.

Yobeeone said...

Ha! That's where the muzlim's went wrong. They obviously don't understand what it is to "accept" yashkah-butt. If they did, they would realise they can't use the term "accept" towards him.

To "accept" him would mean you believe he died for your sins, and all the rest of the crap they attribute to him. Basically, he has to become your god...that is the acceptance. (yo pukes at the thought)

Lemon: You're right. The reality is if x-tians didn't think (like muzlims do) that their job is to convert the world to their religion, they wouldn't raise a finger to help anyone.

The whole point of helping the poor is to sucker in converts by making them feel obligated to you, so they'll convert. It's bloody evil, if you ask me.

Keli Ata said...

You couldn't be more right, Yobee. It's really despicable when you think about it--dangling food, water, and health care under the noses of non-Christians living in abject poverty in exchange for conversion.

They're doing it in Israel too, and with Russian Jews that they help to make aliyah "for free" but then the real costs are sunday school classes and JC lectures.

In fact, that's sort of how I felt last December. I was really sort on cash and sat through a very christian and very preachy Christmas party just to get my measly $25 bonus.

I will not do that again this year, no matter how strapped for cash I am.

hockey hound said...

All Gentiles are born B'nai Noachs, of course, but not all Gentiles are even aware of or choose to observe the Seven Laws of Noach (which includes, in my opinion, openly defending the Jewish people).

I am (or try to be) a practicing Noachide.

Here's one that will make you roll your eyes, keli ata: Root and Branch have a Muslim member on their governing "council" (Prof. Palazzi). They teach that Muslims can be practicing Noachides. My question is: how can a Muslim, whose Koran denigrates and teaches hatred against the Jew to no end, possibly claim to be a Noachide when it is a fact that Noachides can accept teaching of the Seven Laws of Noach from no other than the Jewish people? Islam teaches that the Jews have corrupted the truth about G-D. (Personally, I don't believe for one moment that allah is the same god as the G-D of Israel and the Jewish people.) Palazzi informed an Israeli Rabbi friend of mine that the Koran supercedes the Torah.

Being a monotheistic god does not make one the same god as the G-D of the Jewish people. Remember what happen to Dagon, who was also a monotheistic god.

Great article, Sultan. Well said.

"On a green tree there are many parrots."

hockey hound said...


What A President Believes
By Michael Devolin
Apr 1, 2007 - 10:15:15 AM

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I've always maintained that Christianity precipitated the Holocaust. There are many Christians who are uncomfortable with this interpretation of history, but the fact remains that much of Germany hated Jews precisely because of what they had been taught for centuries by Christian clerics, long before Germany became Nazi Germany. This was a country raised on Martin Luther's virulent anti-Jewish hatred, a hatred Luther gleaned from the pages of the Christian New Testament: It is because of the New Testament's denigration of Judaism and the Jews that entire nations (Germany included) believed the Jews to be condemned eternally for having rejected the Christian "Messiah", namely Jesus Christ. The New Testament informs these same peoples that a veil placed over their eyes by the G-D who at one time also elected them-Israel-to be a "light unto the nations" blinds the Jews. Hence the attitude (a secret attitude in most cases) of many "religious" Christians that the Jews are "separated from God" and therefore unable to perceive the "truth of Jesus Christ."

It would seem that President Bush, a confessed Christian, believes also that the Jews are unable to perceive not only the "truth of Jesus Christ" but, as well, what is best for their ancient homeland-Israel--which was given them by the G-D of Moses as recorded in the Torah. This surely is the only explanation for his administration's exhortations to the government of Israel that its police and army remove from the land Jews who have laid claim to it, and this in order that it be relinquished to a ruthless enemy whose religious ancestors centuries before obtained that same territory by way of military conquest. It would seem that Islamic expansionism is winked upon, even condoned by the Bush government, but for a Jew to assert his right to his religious heritage--the Temple Mount and various other Jewish holy sites--is frowned upon and even condemned by those American Christians who hold key positions in the Bush Administration.

President Bush does not fear the G-D of the Jews, the reason being that he refuses to acknowledge the G-D of the Jews. He adheres only to that Christian theology which teaches that the Jews have been forsaken by their G-D since the advent of Jesus Christ. George Bush therefore believes in "the wisdom of Christ" only, the collective wisdom of the Jews means nothing to him. What is surely disturbing for the American voter, Christians included (but only those who have yet to comprehend the anti-Jewish essence of their religion), is the fact that this same president promised to fight against Islamic terrorism. Yet here he is giving land to those whose religion cannot but incite terrorism. Here he is holding hands with a Saudi prince whose government has been exposed as culpable numerous times for having funded those Islamic sects around the world who advocate violence against all non-Muslim peoples. In the minds of those Americans who put their hopes in him he has by now validated Ralph Waldo Emerson's eternal proverb, "Fame is proof that people are gullible."

But Bush also proves once again that Christianity, as Islam, will always be antithetical to anything and everything absolutely Jewish, especially the Land of Israel and the religious claims her Jews make to that same land. Consequently, no Christian can ever truly appreciate the primordial connection the Jew has to the land of Israel, both past and present. A connection that long precedes even the Muslim invasion of that land. For the Christian, the Jew is a personage of antediluvian proportions and within the "Old Testament"-but outside of the New Testament's concept of the "spiritual Jew" as defined by Paul of Tarsus.

It matters not, therefore, to President Bush (nor to Jimmy Carter) who takes possession of the present day land of Israel, whether Jew or Islamic terrorist; because for the Christian there is the joyous and superseding expectation of their "messiah" coming yet again to bring "peace on earth, good will toward men." How should it matter therefore to President Bush that his Administration's political meddling in the affairs of the State of Israel serve only to embolden Hamas and Hezbollah to even more ruthless acts of terrorism against her Jewish population? How should it concern President Bush therefore that his Administration exhorts the government of Israel to force Jews from their homes and into the open air? How should it concern President Bush therefore that countries like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia--terrorist-supporting states that promote and sanction Wahabbist Islam abroad and whose populace and press, respectively, are vehemently anti-Jewish and anti-Israel-remain pro forma allies of the United States instead of publicly recognized at large as sworn enemies of those Western democracies not yet transmogrified by Islam's political exploitations?

The above moral embroilments are theologically and politically symmetric for Christians (whether they are aware of such symmetry or not), but pandemic tragedy, both religiously and politically, for the Jews. The Christian can abide such inverse morality. The Jew can only fear its consequences, which could adversely affect both his person and, just as easily, the survival of the State of Israel and those Jews who dwell therein.

Christianity's moral embroilments were efficacious in precipitating Adolf Hitler's genocide against the Jewish people; similarly efficacious in spawning an atmosphere of moral complacency within the German population before, during, and even after the Holocaust; and now, in the present day, efficacious in perverting President Bush's judgement as to what is good and what is evil, what is right and what is wrong.

Such Christianity as practiced by George Bush is not so perilously beyond the Christianity boasted of by the so-called Christian Zionists, although the one regards the other as being on opposite sides of a chasm. Both the Christian Zionists and the Bush Administration have no belief whatsoever in the Jewish expectation of their Moshiach: these Christians believe only in the "second coming" of their Jesus Christ. The former is whom the Torah foretold would transform Israel into a Jewish theocracy, the latter a Christian-ruled utopia. One is antithetical to the other. Or, to borrow a term from the Jewish Tanach, "as far as the east is from the west."

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