Articles

Monday, May 25, 2009

The Congregation of Jihad

Last year the Riverdale Jewish Center made headlines by accommodating a female Muslim exchange student's need for a prayer space during school hours. As Rabbi Rosenblatt described it, “We’re just helping to welcome somebody’s child from overseas,” an announcement that was greeted by loud applause in his congregation.

King Solomon said in Kohelet, "Cast your bread upon the waters and it will return to you after many days."

It took only a few months for the "bread" to return with a Muslim plot to bomb the Riverdale Jewish Center. Since no good deed done for Muslims goes unpunished, while the Rabbi and congregants of the Riverdale Jewish Center were congratulating themselves on their tolerance and open-mindedness, their eagerness to throw open the doors of their house of prayer to an enemy, their friendly neighborhood Muslims were plotting to kill and destroy.

The murderous plot came out of a congregation, but a Muslim congregation radically different in its outlook and worldview. The Masjid Al-Ikhlas, whose name refers to purging non-Islamic beliefs from oneself. The Masjid Al-Ikhlas is run by Imam Salahuddin Muhammed, who was converted and recruited to Islam while serving a 12 year sentence for armed robbery.

The man who recruited him, Imam Umar was closely tied to Saudi backed Islamist groups and supported the attacks and the attackers of 9/11. Imam Umar, originally Wallace Gene Marks, himself had been sent to prison as part of the "Harlem 5" for conspiring to murder police officers using guns and bombs, an attack plan whose crudeness and viciousness had a great deal in common with the planned attack on the Riverdale Jewish Center.

A former member of the Nation of Islam, Marks or Umar, found his mission in recruiting convicts into Islam by working as a prison chaplain, eventually rising to Chief Muslim Chaplain in theNew York State Department of Correctional Services, a position which gave him every opportunity to convert and recruit. Imam Salahuddin Muhammed was one of his recruits. Imam Salahuddin Muhammed in turn became a prison chaplain himself, and at his mosque a number of Muslim ex-cons, some of who had found Islam behind bars, plotted their own Jihad.

Naturally the Rabbi of the Riverdale Jewish Center appeared at an event with Muslim leaders to affirm that the plans of the attackers had absolutely nothing to do with Islam. There was the usual round of interfaith handshaking and agreement that we're all the same underneath the skin. Which of course served to demonstrate how little liberal clergy learn from their attackers.

Terrorism is not a thing apart from Islam, it is based on the teachings of Mohammed and the words of the Koran. To claim that Islamic terrorism stands apart from Islam as a deviant branch, is as absurd as claiming that the Holocaust was perpetrated by people who may have been members of the Nazi party and may have been following the will of Adolf Hitler-- but Nazism and Hitler had nothing to do with the Holocaust.

Islam is based on hate, its followers are driven by the need to passively or actively destroy non-Muslim civilizations, nations and individuals. The Rabbi and congregants of the Riverdale Jewish Center believed that there was a fundamental difference between the Muslim exchange student they took in to pray in their halls, and the Muslim ex-cons who plotted to blow up the synagogue. But they were both Muslims, and hate for non-Muslims is at the heart of their belief system.

While the Center had accommodated Dinar Pupista, the Muslim exchange student, and her need for an afternoon prayer time, and the New York Times wrote it all up as a glowing testament to the willingness of Americans to accommodate Muslims... they might have done better to consider just what exactly those prayers involved.

Within a synagogue, Dinar began by facing toward Mecca. Mecca was Mohammed's second choice of a holy land, after turning away from Jerusalem because his new faith was rejected by the Jewish population. Mohammed managed to compensate for that by wiping out the Jewish population of Mecca. His followers would go on to seize the Temple Mount in Jerusalem and frequently bar Jews from even worshiping at the Western Wall. There oriented toward the Masjid Al Haram, the Mosque of Mecca, whose Imam called Jews "Pigs and Monkeys", she would begin her prayers.

When Dinar prayed Asr, the Islamic afternoon prayer, she would recite a sentence which reads as, "Guide us to the Straight Way. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians)"

While the Riverdale Jewish Center's congregants and staff were patting themselves on the back for their tolerance, the hapless Muslim exchange student would be participating in a daily ritual of hate within their synagogue walls. And cursing them in the process.

The difference between Dinar and the Bronx Jihadis was that they tried to take action based on the hate for Jews embedded in Islam. Dinar by contrast will likely never go beyond using her mandatory Zakat donations to help fund terrorist groups such as Hamas. That is what many fallaciously assume to be difference between the moderate and extremist Muslim. In fact it is the difference between the passive and the active Muslim.

Despite the differences between Sunni and Shia, between the preaching styles and public face that some Muslim mosques show, there is only one true congregation within Islam, the Congregation of Jihad.

Tolerance toward Islam means tolerance toward hate. That hate may or may not morph into actual violence, but there is no reason to be surprised when it does. A Muslim trying to bomb a synagogue is no more aberrant, than a Klansman trying to bomb a black church. Both are acting on their hateful beliefs. The difference is that no black church would be foolish enough to invite a Klansman in, (unless he happened to be a prominent Democratic Senator), but liberal clergy, both Jewish and non-Jewish, roll out the welcome mat for Muslims all the time... little understanding the kind of hate they are welcoming inside.

Tolerance toward an evil ideology, whether it is Islam or Communism, Nazism, Satanism or Scientology, legitimizes it and gives it a foothold. Those who show tolerance toward Islam become accomplices in their own destruction. Because there is only one Islam, the Congregation of Jihad, the sword raised over the neck of the infidel, the Jihadis ranging across the Dar Al Harb to throw it down and replace it with the Dar Al Islam.

(Addendum: Soccer Dad reminds me that Rabbi Jonathan Rosenblatt was part of a delegation of liberal Rabbis who traveled to Washington in 1995 to lobby for aid to the PLO. Naturally that aid money went to fund terrorism against Israelis, and the private bank accounts of Arafat and the rest of his gang.)

31 comments:

EB said...

Great post. It is true that within Islam, there is only one version of belief, that of the Quran and Sharia. The only difference between the Sunni and Shia is who should of succeeded Mohammad. It's that simple and sad.
Mohammad "liquidated" the town of Khaibar, a Jewish oasis outside of Medina, because the Jews refused to accept him as a prophet of any kind because he knew nothing about Jewish or even Christian beliefs.
That's the fundamental reason as to why Muslims hate Jews. Mohammad was rejected as a prophet (deservingly).
It's fascinating that in todays world we can have so many people who refuse to look at facts. When someone says they're going to kill you, you really should believe them. Don't try to reason with evilness. In the end, you'll be dead and another fool will step into your shoes and try to figure out why you were murdered.
Islam is seeking total domination. History has proven this fact. Why are so many excusing Islam as something we all should understand, instead of looking at it for what it is?
Oh wait...if only Israel was gone, it would all be different...

Keli Ata said...

There is no reason for a Muslim to attend a religious school be it Jewish or Catholic. I just don't see the rationale other than to infiltrate and destroy it from within.

Surely the Riverdale rabbi and his congregants pray to Hashem to spare them from an evil foe an evil etc etc. Maybe we've lost sight of what evil is that we have so much trouble recognizing it and keeping it out of our midst.

Great article, Sultan.

Keli Ata said...

With Shavuos coming up maybe it's a good time for everyone to consider whether they want to embrace and live by Hashem's law or the evil law of Sharia.

That could very well be the critical issue the world needs to ask itself--which law will we live by and obey?

Jew With A View said...

This is a really interesting piece and I agree with your conclusions.

Muslims wrongfoot the rest of us constantly. If we refuse to accommodate their needs and beliefs and rituals, we are labelled 'intolerant' and this then constitutes yet more 'proof' of 'western aggression towards islam'.

I'm sure we can all envisage the newspaper headlines if the Synagogue had not facilitated this Muslim girl's prayers.

And when we *do* try to accommodate Muslims in non Islamic nations, well, you've described precisely what tends to happen.

Thus Islam has us all in a classic 'double bind'.

But as you rightly note, no ideology that espouses hatred should be immune from condemnation. Sadly far too many people insist that because Islam is a religion, it is exempt from the sort of critique we would apply to any other ideology that inculcated such hatred in its followers.

Phil said...

Fortunately for us non-Muslims, one Quran and Sharia still leaves plenty of room for Muslims to fight among themselves regarding their different schools of Fiqh concerning accepted codes of conduct. Yes Islam does desire to dominate the world, but it would be wrong to assume that all Muslims would consider it acceptable to pursue that end by such evil acts as were planned against Riverdale.

Jew With A View said...

Phil,

But surely the issue is not whether all Muslims endorse Islamic terrorism? I'm not aware of any commentator or blogger or author who suggests that. The issue is that 'moderate' Muslims DO NOT SPEAK OUT with sufficient energy to help prevent atrocities in the name OF their religion.

If you don't oppose evil, aren't you effectively condoning it...?

Also, if Muslims were only 'fighting among themselves', that would be far better than the reality - which is that the Muslim world is at war with the rest of the planet! Over 90% of terrorist acts are perpetrated by Islamic terrorists.

Phil said...

Jew With A View - I don't disagree with anything you say. However painting all Muslims as endemically evil does run the risk of forcing 'moderate' Muslims into the same camp as their radical brethren and killing off any slim hope of their ever taking a different stance.

Sultan Knish said...

All Muslims are not endemically evil, but Islam is. The extent to which Muslims put Mohammed's words and deeds comprehensively into practice, is the extent to which they are evil.

"Moderate Muslims" come in two categories, the first category are Muslims who don't actually follow Islam, the second are the Tariq Ramadans, who are just as dedicated to the worst that Islam has to offer, but know they need to put a good public face on it.

No Bueno said...

By not speaking out against the tyranny, hate, and violence committed in the name of Islam -"moderate Muslims" have by defacto spoken.

Unfortunately, such silent words seem to suggest to those who wait for more affirmative condemnation, that violence and mayhem committed in the name of Allah is acceptable.

Is there any other way to interpret silence? There are 1.5 billion Muslims on this planet. Clearly, with such numbers, it should not be difficult to find those who speak out against such violence perpetraited in the name of their religion.

All too often however, the voices of those who condemn such violence are drowned out by the hords of those who take to dancing in the streets and celebrating the slaughter of innocent lives, when carried out in the name of Islam.

Besides, how long must we wait for so called "moderate Muslims" to condemn murderous acts, inspired by those who call Allah their god?

If they have not come into the camp of condemnation by now, what's the likelihood they ever will Phil?

How long shall we wait?

Kadashman-Enlil, devotee of Moloch said...

Not all are as closed minded as you are Mr. Sultan
Praise be to Moloch, the lovely and delicate Rabbi also allows me to sacrifice to the great dread lord of the underworld by performing the sacred age old burning of the first born.
I am proud to belong to such a synagogue of tolerance.

My good friend Ouburp is also allowed to practice his tantric sex exercises in the sanctuary there because some people are not so pigheaded and afraid to relate to other gods as you are Mr. Sultan.

We must all respect one anothers gods and the sacrifices and wars that they demand.

Lemon said...

One wonders where the moderate Mohammedans might be?

Keli Ata said...

You're right. Remaining silent is expressing an opinion.

I find it interesting with the millions/billions of Jews and Christians in the world split into various opinions on just about everything from religious matters to political ones there are so many voices.

Reform Jews voice opposition to Orthodox Jewish beliefs and policies all the time--quite vocally, too.

Yet in Islam there is pretty much only one voice and opinion when it comes to terrorism. Why is that?

What are we suppose to make of this?

The only thing I can assume is that 99.9-percent of Muslims condone terrorism or at least are cowards unwilling to stand up against something they know is wrong.

There are how many millions of Muslims in the world and yet no voices of dissent?

Kwelos said...

Had enough of Dhimmitude? Maybe you're ready for some Harbitude !

Amir said...

“All Muslims are not endemically evil, but Islam is. The extent to which Muslims put Mohammed's words and deeds comprehensively into practice, is the extent to which they are evil.”

Bernard Lewis and others will disagree. If that were so Sultan, then why did Jews prefer living under the Moslems till the European conquest? It’s Arab nationionlism and Xtian anti-semitism that has led to Islamism.

The historical facts don’t bear this out Sultan, didn’t the Islamic conquest end Jewish exile in Palestine? Why did we accept their rule then and not now, and why didn’t they kill us all then? We killed in Islamic lands the way we were in Xtian lands. Under the kalifate, which had the Koran as constitution, jews were tolerated and did fine generally. When nationalism, secularism, baathism, communism and European Xtians influenced the Moslem mind, only then did they start killing us. George Habash was an xtian.

Saddam Hussein was a baathiest atheist. Arafat was a secular Marxist, using xtian anti Semitism to draw his follwers. Palestinains are mainly secular not religious. Syrians are baathist and are anti jewish. None of these influences existed till a century or so ago.

"Moderate Muslims" come in two categories, the first category are Muslims who don't actually follow Islam, the second are the Tariq Ramadans, who are just as dedicated to the worst that Islam has to offer, but know they need to put a good public face on it.”

Islamism isn’t from the Koran, its political and secular and they use the Koran to whip up sentiment. Be careful what you say, Let’s not distort history.

http://samsonblinded.org/blog/moses-the-terrorist.htm
Moses, the first terrorist (not Mohammed)
I laugh at Jews who accuse the Arabs of terrorism. Look at Moses. He had the purely political aim of national divestment from Egypt. He brought plagues on Egypt, an early form of biowarfare. Finally, he had Egyptian civilians, including babies, killed. And the oppressed Jews looted their oppressors. Doesn’t that sound like a model for Palestinian terrorism? It’s not that Moses did a bad thing; rather, the terrorism of the Palestinians is an equally ethical form of war.

Ameena said...

". It's that simple and sad.
Mohammad "liquidated" the town of Khaibar, a Jewish oasis outside of Medina, because the Jews refused to accept him as a prophet of any kind because he knew nothing about Jewish or even Christian beliefs.
That's the fundamental reason as to why Muslims hate Jews. Mohammad was rejected as a prophet (deservingly).
"

This is a lie, that discredits you more than anything else. Mohammeds life is well documented. Parroting lies makes you look like a fool.


Read history. The treacherous jews (not all of them) faced destruction because they broke their covenent. They were money lenders, threatened by law forbidding usuary, (when that Surah was revealed)

Their judge (a jew from their tribe called Saad bin Muadh) invoked Torah law and had them put to death, and women and children taken into slavery.

Mohammed was sent to bring the pagan Arabs back to the religon of their forefather. The Jews and Christians had a covenant they were (ahl al dhimma).

There were Jews in Mohammed's inner circle.

Those who say that he liquidiated them, only do so because they are either jealous or they can't bear the humiliation.

Doesn't Deutoronmy say that most of your enemies would come from your own? Well this insidious lot, were some of them.

They were living in Ishmael's land, and tried to kill a Monothiesm by siding with pagans.

They faced God's wrath in the end.

The rigteious jews survived and went on to do very well for themselves, as did the Chrsitians.

Omar the First Caliph ended the exile of the Jews. He wouldn't have done that, if jews were considered enemies. They were not.

Jews are fellow book people.

Ameena said...

To the person who enquired where the moderate muslims are. Havn’t you heard the condemnations? Also, the FBI guy behind the arrests is said to have instigated this to create a stir. It doesn’t help your cause to have these liars stirring the pot. These 4 men had one who was mentally ill, the FBI guy offered them money and inducements. We will see where all this leads,

To the person called Sultan who wrote the story above. It has a lot of errors, and I will correct a few,


“Mecca was Mohammed's second choice of a holy land, after turning away from Jerusalem because his new faith was rejected by the Jewish population.”

This is not true. We are not forbidden from facing Jerusalem from prayer even now. We couldn’t face Mecca, to pray when it had idols on it. That would be idolatry. Not till The Mohammed had cleared the Kaaba (built centuries earlier by Abraham and Ishmael) of idols were the SUrah’s revealed commanding us to face the Kaaba

Mohammed didn’t require the Jews or other monotheists to convert. Book people have a covenant of protection for which they pay a Jizya. Ending paganism and idolatry was why Mohammed was sent. To this end some of the Jews sided with the enemy and thus faced God’s wrath. In fact the covenant Mohammed wrote is still in existence, you can read it here. This is what they broke. As you can see it doesn’t require anyone to convert.

Covenent of Medina
http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:E3me9AJL9I4J:www.constitution.org/cons/medina/constitution_medina.doc+covenent+medina+jews&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk


“ Mohammed managed to compensate for that by wiping out the Jewish population of Mecca. His followers would go on to seize the Temple Mount in Jerusalem and frequently bar Jews from even worshiping at the Western Wall. There oriented toward the Masjid Al Haram, the Mosque of Mecca, whose Imam called Jews "Pigs and Monkeys", she would begin her prayers.”

What a distortion! The jews who sided with pagan Arabs were annihilated along with the pagans. They were a crock of evil. They didn’t even respect their own religion or they wouldn’t have done what they did. Thus they faced God’s wrath.

Didn’t the Jews welcome the Islamic conquest , for it ended their exile? The bar on worship today at the wall is for political (not religious) reasons. Some Islamic clerics pretend it’s religious but it’s not. Sheik raad who is one of those, is motivated by anger against Palestinian occupation. He knows very well, the traditional Islamic belief acknowledges that the Temple Mount is Jewish. The golden Mosque was built out of respect for that, after the Islamic conquest.

Sultan Knish said...

Amir,

"If that were so Sultan, then why did Jews prefer living under the Moslems till the European conquest?" Jews didn't prefer to live under Muslims. The Middle East where Jews had traditionally lived was overrun and ruled by Muslims.

Some Jews lived in the Middle East. Others lived in Europe. They all had to live somewhere.

"The historical facts don’t bear this out Sultan, didn’t the Islamic conquest end Jewish exile in Palestine?" It continued another phase of the exile, this time with growing oppression that led to the decline of the Jewish population.

"Under the kalifate, which had the Koran as constitution, jews were tolerated and did fine generally. When nationalism, secularism, baathism, communism and European Xtians influenced the Moslem mind, only then did they start killing us." More secular Muslim rulers who cared only for commerce tended to persecute Jews less. By contrast Muslim rulers who were fanatical about Islam, such as the Almohades, did indeed persecute the Jews brutally.

But Muslims were killing Jews all along, in the same way that Christians in Europe were.

There is no great difference there.

Look at Moses. He had the purely political aim of national divestment from Egypt. He brought plagues on Egypt, an early form of biowarfare. Finally, he had Egyptian civilians, including babies, killed. And the oppressed Jews looted their oppressors. Doesn’t that sound like a model for Palestinian terrorism? It’s not that Moses did a bad thing; rather, the terrorism of the Palestinians is an equally ethical form of war. If you're going to accept the biblical account of the plagues as authentic, then these were acts of G-d, not man. If you're going to claim that Moses and the Jews somehow caused fire and ice to rain from the sky, split the sea and caused every firstborn in Egypt to die at the same moment... then you've got credibility issues.

Sultan Knish said...

Ameena,

"This is a lie, that discredits you more than anything else. Mohammeds life is well documented. Mohammed's life is documented mainly in Muslim mythology, but the massacres he did perpetrate against the Jews appear to be quite real.

I'm not really interested in the Islamic apologetics for your atrocities, but let's go ahead anyway.

"They were money lenders, threatened by law forbidding usuary, (when that Surah was revealed)

Their judge (a jew from their tribe called Saad bin Muadh) invoked Torah law and had them put to death, and women and children taken into slavery."
Saad bin Muadh was a Muslim. There is no Torah law that prescribes the death penalty for usury, let alone the enslavement or women and children for it.

That is the sick evil of Islam. And considering that Mohammed personally raped at least one of the Jewish women, your prophet was very much involved.

"Jews are fellow book people." No, actually under your laws, we're Dhimmis, who are not allowed to rule our own land, build a Synagogue higher than a mosque, etc

Sultan Knish said...

Ameena 2,

"To the person who enquired where the moderate muslims are. Havn’t you heard the condemnations? Also, the FBI guy behind the arrests is said to have instigated this to create a stir. It doesn’t help your cause to have these liars stirring the pot. These 4 men had one who was mentally ill, the FBI guy offered them money and inducements. We will see where all this leads," This is the textbook "moderate Muslim" response to terrorism.

1. Cite someone else's supposed condemnation.

2. Claim the whole thing was faked by the government and trot out the conspiracy theories.

Muslims have been doing the same exact thing from 9/11 onward.

"The bar on worship today at the wall is for political (not religious) reasons. Some Islamic clerics pretend it’s religious but it’s not. Sheik raad who is one of those, is motivated by anger against Palestinian occupation. He knows very well, the traditional Islamic belief acknowledges that the Temple Mount is Jewish. The golden Mosque was built out of respect for that, after the Islamic conquest." Throughout Muslim rule, a number of Muslim rulers barred Jews from praying at the wall. Building a mosque on the Temple Mount was itself a desecration, as if Jews had come along and built a synagogue on the Kabaa and told Muslims they weren't allowed to be there.

Ameena said...

“Saad bin Muadh was a Muslim. There is no Torah law that prescribes the death penalty for usury, let alone the enslavement or women and children for it.”

I gave you one of their reasons for hostility to refute the statement that they wouldn’t convert. Usuary was forbidden to us after that Surah was revealed, and this was a threat to them, not only were they losing their tribe (converts to Islam) but now their livelihood was threatened. It was greed,on their part. About Saad, you can read on Wikipedia, or even Daniel Pipes weblog, they broke their covenant, you’re also wrong about Torah law, even stricter than Islam, in fact the stoning of adulters wasn’t practiced by the Prophet, it was by the Jews in Medina tho, and that’s’ why some Muslims dispute it. idolators are eligible for the death sentence arenty they? Even today? I can bring youstatements by your Rabbi’s to that effect if you want,

http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/archive/index.php/t-826.html
Now here is the *key point* to remember: Prophet Muhammad (s) was *not* the one who passed the sentence on them. The Banu Qurayza refused to be judged by the Prophet (s) and instead begged to be judged by Saad bin Muadh, who was the leader of the Aws tribe (former allies of the Banu Qurayza). It was Saad bin Muadh who passed the judgment on the Banu Qurayza, and *not* the Prophet (s), who as we have seen in many other instances, usually set prisoners free. In fact, the Prophet (s) was so lenient in this regards that he (s) was once rebuked by Allah for letting war criminals go.

Saad bin Muadh asked the Jewish tribe of Banu Qurayza wether they wanted their judgment and penalty to be from the Islamic Law or from the Judaic Law. They chose the latter. Had they chosen the former, the merciful law of Islam would have been enacted. Instead, they chose the Judaic Law, and the punishment in Judaic Law is killing the men, and selling the women and children into slavery. This is based on the following verse in the Old Testament (as well as others):

"Thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword (even the unarmed ones): But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee." (Deuteronomy 20:13-14)

And so Saad bin Muadh (not Prophet Muhammad) passed this judgement down upon them. It was the Jewish Law, not the Islamic Law.

It was ruled therefore, based on Judaic Law, that Banu Qurayza was guilty of high treason and also of holding out to the Soldiers of Allah for twenty-five days.

Banu Qurayza was asked wether or not they wanted to follow Islamic Law or Judaic Law (the rule of their own people), and they chose the latter. So Saad bin Muadh therefore ruled by that law, and the punishment of a city that was guilty of high treason in Judaic Law is what was done to them. It is of course ironic that Christians will criticize the incident of Banu Qurayza, and that is in fact the only instance that they can nit-pick because all other instances were ruled by Islamic Law which is more merciful. So the only ONE instance that they continually bring up is Banu Qurayza, but that was the ONE time that the rule was by the Bible (i.e. OT), not the Quran.


I'll go through your other points tomorrow.

Ameena said...

Why do you call yourself Sultan? For someone who hates Islam you coun't have picked a more Islamic name.

The Prophet didn't rape a Jewish woman, this is so laughable it's not even worth replying to, he was head of state and could have had any woman he wanted. In fact he refused countless offers of concubines and wives, his marriages were mainly for political purposes, other than his first marriage.

what Moses did was worse, or Joshua (based on Moses teaching) and doesn't Halacha command you to kill idolators even today?

I'll go as far as saying that your weakness is not upholding these traditons is the reason you have suffered so much. Didnn't God say so in Devaraim and Exodus?

according to Halacha, idolators are not supposed to be in Israel, i've seen Jews calling for conversion to Nohide law or conversion for Chrisitnas in Israel or expulsion, Meir Kahane was only the tip of the iceberg

Pot calling kettle black,

and the AlMohads' were an EXCEPTION rahter than the rule, we don't always practice what we should, we're human after all. and sin.

Are you saying you did? why does the Torah state otherwise? that most of your people would fall into evil?

and DHIMMI is not a dirty word, since when did having a divine command to protect a faith become a sin?

and Jews had plenty of places to live, Japan, China, but no, they used to leave Chrisitna lands to live with us.

That is a fact.

More on this tomorrow,

Ameena said...

Mr Sultan

"1. Cite someone else's supposed condemnation."

See the two links below with condemntations from CAIR, and other Muslim groups.

2. Claim the whole thing was faked by the government and trot out the conspiracy theories.

If they were planning on attacking Jews, Synagogues, or other groups then they should be punished. This goes without saying. BUT, if there are other factors involved, like they were paid to do it, then that is wrong too. It deflects attention away from the threat. I didn't judge, I said, "Let's see what happens", if the FBI guy was offering inducements or was in the wrong, it will come out in the trial.

"Muslims have been doing the same exact thing from 9/11 onward."

No we havn't. We have worked very successfully to eliminate the threat of extremism. Our enemies need to be fought too for they and the Islamic extremists are two sides of the same coin. Both as bad as each other.


http://www.cair.com/ArticleDetails.aspx?ArticleID=25950&&name=n&&currPage=1&&Active=1
CAIR Applauds FBI for Preventing Attacks on NY Jewish Sites Posted 5/21/2009 9:17:00 AM (WASHINGTON, D.C., 5/21/2009) - The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) today applauded efforts by the FBI and other law enforcement agencies that apparently thwarted an alleged plot to attack Jewish institutions in New York.
Four men were arrested Wednesday for allegedly plotting to bomb a synagogue and a Jewish community center. The men also allegedly planned to shoot down military planes.
http://www.startribune.com/yourvoices/45858187.html
Muslim Organizations Condemn Terror Plan: Is Anyone Listening?
By Amy Eilberg
Last update: May 22, 2009 - 1:43 PM

Before 7 A.M., I e-mailed Dr. Ingrid Mattson, the leader of the Islamic Society of North America, the nation's largest organization of Muslims. I know Dr. Mattson to be a woman of vision, sophistication and passionate commitment to the integration of moderate Islam into the U.S. I asked her to issue a statement condemning the violent plot, knowing that such a public condemnation could reassure Jews still wary of the potential for positive relationships between Jews and Muslims.
She was way ahead of me, and so were many other Muslim leaders. By the end of the day, I had received notice of several press releases, including from the Islamic Society of North America, Council on American-Islamic Relations, and Muslims for Progressive Values, a press conference planned jointly by Muslim and Jewish leaders in New York City, and multiple expressions of concern from friends and colleagues in the Muslim community in the Twin Cities.

Sultan Knish said...

Ameena 1,

The Imam of the Haram Mosque in Mecca "The Prophet’s guidance, by which we act, dictates: ‘Drive the Jews and the Christians out of the Arabian Peninsula.’ Driving them out is undoubtedly the prerogative of the ruler, but they should be allowed to live here only if their presence is essential.”

That is the word of the Imam of the mosque of your holiest site.

Your usury nonsense is just that. You claimed it was done under Torah law. That was a lie. Mohammed called for driving out Jews and Christians period.

His massacres of the Jews living there was done to rob them and enslave them. It was what Muslims would and continue to do to non-Muslims around the world.

"Torah law, even stricter than Islam, in fact the stoning of adulters wasn’t practiced by the Prophet, it was by the Jews in Medina tho" Muslims continue to stone adulterers to death. Jews do not. Christians do not. Muslims do. Make all the excuses you want in the world, but those are the facts.

http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Religion/?id=1.0.2031812946

Sultan Knish said...

Ameena 2,

"The Prophet didn't rape a Jewish woman, this is so laughable it's not even worth replying to" http://www.islam-watch.org/Larry/Muhammad-Massacres-and-Sex-slaves.htm

In the Massacre of Banu Quraiza, Muhammad order the beheading of 600 to 900 adult men (determined by pubic-hair growth) and he himself chopped off a few heads. He enslaved all the women and children of the Jewish tribe. The women were kept as sex-slaves with Muhammad himself taking a beautiful Jewish woman as his own sex-slave and sold the rest of the captives into slavery. He also looted the property of the murdered Jews and took possession of all their wealth and properties.

"and the AlMohads' were an EXCEPTION rahter than the rule, we don't always practice what we should, we're human after all. and sin." The Almohades were not all that unusual. Maimonedes was forced to author an entire text on the subject. Forced conversion of Jews continued well into modern times.

"and DHIMMI is not a dirty word, since when did having a divine command to protect a faith become a sin? " Being a second class citizen is always a dirty word.

Living under laws that define you as inferior is indeed a dirty word. If Arabs in Israel were not allowed to testify in court cases involving Jews, or build mosques taller than a synagogue and their murder would be punished with a fine, Muslims would be outraged.

But turn it around and you claim Dhimmi isn't a dirty word.

"and Jews had plenty of places to live, Japan, China, but no, they used to leave Chrisitna lands to live with us. " Jews were living in the Middle East long before Islam took it over. Jews were not living in China or Japan or Antarctica in any great numbers, because they weren't from there and because travel there involved great difficulty.

We did not come as guests in your land. You came as conquerors into ours.

Sultan Knish said...

Ameena 3,

ISNA and CAIR are both Islamist groups with non-incidental ties to terrorists. Their condemnations are nothing more than Taqyia.

And you followed the typical Muslim pattern of 1. Citing the condemnations 2. Claiming it was a government conspiracy.

"No we havn't. We have worked very successfully to eliminate the threat of extremism. You're kidding, right?

Where exactly have you eliminated the threat of extremism? Pakistan? Saudi Arabia? Lebanon? France? London?

Sultan Knish said...

Ingrid Mattson and terrorism against Jews

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/01/17/feds-say-obama-prayer-leader-group-linked-hamas/

http://www.campus-watch.org/article/id/5561

Mattson's organization, ISNA, is currently an unindicted co-conspirator in the largest Hamas-fundraising case in U.S. history, against the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF). In petitioning the federal district court in Dallas to remove itself unindicted co-conspirator status, ISNA's attorneys conceded substantial financial ties to top-Hamas operatives, claiming merely that such documentary evidence dated back to the late ‘80s and early ‘90s, before Hamas was officially designated a terrorist organization by the U.S. government.

But this point should be made clear: one month before ISNA's president participated at an "interfaith" service to kick off the Democratic National Convention, her organization's website contained the line: "The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them." That has been on ISNA's website for years. That is all you need to know about ISNA's "interfaith" bona fides. If only the organizers of the Democratic National Convention cared about such sentiments.

EB said...

To Ameena the Muslim-

You said: "Read history. The treacherous jews (not all of them) faced destruction because they broke their covenent. They were money lenders, threatened by law forbidding usuary, (when that Surah was revealed)."

You politely begin with "treacherous jews". Thanks for revealing the purpose for your comment. What "covenent" did these "treacherous jews" exactly break? Oh a "Surah", and who gave this "Surah" I bet it was Mohammad...enough said.

You spewed again: "Their judge (a jew from their tribe called Saad bin Muadh) invoked Torah law and had them put to death, and women and children taken into slavery."
Ummm...What Torah law was that exactly? Your Surah didn't tell you? Oh wait, you are getting all this information from Mohammad, who couldn't read or write, so how would he know?

Again you said: "Mohammed was sent to bring the pagan Arabs back to the religon of their forefather. The Jews and Christians had a covenant they were (ahl al dhimma)."
Put your Quran down for a minute and really think about what your saying. You know nothing of history. (The Jews and Christians DID NOT become "dhimma" until AFTER Umar. By the way, Umar was Caplih AFTER Mohammad was dead) If you did, you would know the Arab people were ALWAYS pagan. Pick up a book about the gods of the Arab people. There is no mention of monothesim within the Arab people until AFTER 620 CE.


"There were Jews in Mohammed's inner circle."
Really, is that what the Quran says? It's telling a tale. Mohammad went after the Jewish tribes according to HISTORY. He went after the Qainuqa tribe and drove them out of Medina. When the Nadir Jews in Medina refused to rejoice in the Battle of Uhud, the Muslims once again drove them to Khaibar. All culminating in the murder of the Jewish men of the Qainuqa, Nadir, and Quraizah tribes at Khaibar. The women and children were sold into slavery. Sounds to me like Mohammad loved the Jewish people. If Jews did join Mohammad and his henchmen, it was only under the fear of death, nothing else.

You kept going:"Those who say that he liquidiated them, only do so because they are either jealous or they can't bear the humiliation."
Umm...the destruction of the Jewish tribes of Medina sounds like liquidation to me. He rounded them up, them murdered them. Pretty obvious what happened.

And on you go:"Doesn't Deutoronmy say that most of your enemies would come from your own? Well this insidious lot, were some of them."
Sounds like someone is trying to make excuses for senseless murder. Call them insidious and it makes it seem like they asked for it. You Muslims are so careful with who you associate yourselves with.

You spewed this time: "They were living in Ishmael's land, and tried to kill a Monothiesm by siding with pagans."
In order to claim Ishmael, you need to actually be able to read and write, neither of which Mohammad was able to do. Thank you for admitting that Islam is "A monothiesm". It has nothing to do with any other religion. It's a book of theft and was put together by a illiterate man.

"They faced God's wrath in the end."
No, the Jews who were murdered by Mohammad faced a madman's "wrath".

You were funny with this one: "Omar the First Caliph ended the exile of the Jews. He wouldn't have done that, if jews were considered enemies. They were not."
I'm not even a Muslim and I know "Omar" was NOT the first Caliph. ABU BAKR was the FIRST Caliph. Omar was the SECOND Caliph and the one who levied taxes on the "protected people" under the fear of death. And I don't know history...

Yochana said...

I don't believe they is any such thing as a moderate muzlim. They're just keeping quiet till the time is right.

Reason being - in Israel there was a moment when muzlims were supposedly friends with the Israelis. They were even their housekeepers. They shopped at each others stores. Then when ara-the-fat gave the word - Jews suddenly began to disappear off the planet. Their good friends were picking them off one by one. And there was no more shopping at one anothers stores. (Told to me by an Israeli mother on her visit to CH.)

I go with not all arabs are muzlim. Some are x-tians - but I don't trust them either. :)

Jew With A View said...

Amir

- please stop with the fiction. It is verifiable fact that Jews and indeed all non Muslims, have only the status of 'dhimmi' in Muslim nations. And throughout history, Jews were subjected to pogroms, massacres and ritual humiliation at the hands of their Muslim neighbours. At present, Yemenite Jews are being diven to flee their homes; and only this week, it transpired that in Morocco, Muslims have been plotting to kill Jews.

Ameena:

Your statement that Jews in Israel are demanding that people convert is ABSURD.

Quite apart from anything else, Judaism is not an evangelical faith. We believe that all righteous souls reach 'gan eden' (garden of eden).

And the whole point OF Noahides is that they are Gentiles who do not wish to convert, though they feel a kinship for Jews and wish to follow the Noahide Laws.

Get your basic facts right!

Jew With A View said...

AMIR said:

'the terrorism of the Palestinians is an equally ethical form of war.'

This would be laughable, if it wasn't for the fact that millions of Arabs and Muslims actually believe it.

There is nothing remotely 'ethical' about Hamas terrorists hiding behind women and children - and forcing these innocents to act as human shields.

If, AMIR, you actually believe this is 'ethical', then your moral compass is in urgent need of adjustment.

I suppose next you'll be telling us that Mohammed 'wasn't a paedophile, he was just fond of children'...?

Anonymous said...

Ameena

Taqiyya and kitman here, there and everywhere = muslims.

We know the muslims and their lack of truthfulness and that´s empirical.

Vivi Andersen

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